Science in Mizahar

[Dren Zhao]

If the ideas were forgotten, does that mean there would be no art, no agriculture, no architecture, no writing or mathematics or whatnot? Would people operate like plants in the sense that they don't think?

The way I've come to understand it, it seems like whenever a person paints a great work of art, the Idea of it came from gods. If a person plants a seed to grow a crop of wheat, the Idea came from the gods. Is this correct?

If gods perish all the time, is their connection to Ideas the sole reason why they are considered gods?

Thank you very much for your patience and time.

[Dren Zhao]

I have sent a message to Gossamer asking for some help with some questions I have, so hopefully she will be able to help me. Particularly about the area of the Ruv'na, which was pointed out to me by the user Hornet.

http://www.mizahar.com/lore/Ruv'na

[Syveris]

Hmm, I'm also new here and since my current character still doesn't worship Gods, I'm not very sure about how it all works. But from reading the lores, this is what I could understand:

As I understand it, an Idea can only be presented or brought to mortals by a God, but once it has, it won't go away simply because the God has died. For example, Syir, the God of Peace and Civilization, was slain by Rhysol, but it didn't mean that all cities disappeared and that the word became nothing but war. An Idea can be forgotten, but it doesn't mean it will because the God who is connected to it died.

The Idea would be more of the concept. For exemple, a human couldn't come up with the concept of what numbers are - a God had to present it to them, much like the arabic alphabet needed to be created. But once the creator died, we didn't forget said alphabet. So, an idea for an artwork will come from the PC, but the concept of what art is came from a God.

For the last question, I'd say that yes, that would make sense.

But as I said, I'm not sure this is correct, it's just my view of things. This questions actually are very interesting.

EDIT: Oh, I didn't see your last post. Well, if you can tell me what Gossamer said about this, I'd be very interested.

[Alea Davenport]

...You know what, I'm going to say that these are exactly the sorts of questions your PC can quest to answer. Honestly, most mortals don't even have a clue about Ideas with a capital "I", much less the consequences for forgetting them. (Or whether they can be remembered without gods.)

I recommend you start roleplaying with what you know so far, and fumble through Mizahar as best you can, with answering these questions being your driving motivation

Because at this point, I think the only person who can answer questions about the nature of the universe is Tarot (maybe Gossamer, but Tarot wrote these rules). (You could try PMing him if you want to get into a conversation about it, but I'm pretty sure no one but him knows more than what's in the lore.)

[Dren Zhao]

Syveris: Thank you Syveris for your time. It is all very interesting to think about. How you describe it all actually makes a lot of sense. I'll be sure to tell you what Gossamer says. Now the question is, can a character choose to believe that Ideas came from people instead?

Everything is leading up to how advanced the science is in Mizahar. Astronomy is a skill, so clearly the knowledge of Astrophysics exists somewhere. If Astrophysics exists, then surely there must be an understanding of Gravitation somewhere? Is there some reminiscence of theories such as the Big Bang or Evolution somewhere? You really can't have Gravitation without understanding of other parts of Astrophysics, such as Electromagnetism and Atomic and Molecular Physics. Perhaps in an old tome, these things are recorded but forgotten. I'm trying to get my character into the belief that we all developed by ourselves, without the help of deities. Being a scientist character, she would need a way to come to such a theory. Perhaps a knowledge of high Mathematics would lead to knowledge of Gravitation or somehow theories of Natural Selection.

This is all just a concept now, but it would be an interesting challenge. If people know about Astrophysics, then coming to the theory of Natural Selection is not that far-fetched.

Alea Davenport: I agree. This sounds like a very fun challenge and a very fun character to play! I'll message Tarot with some questions that I have as well. I know the mods can be kind of anal when it comes to walking off the traditional character path, so I want to discuss this with them before I continue. My fear is that they may think I'm turning this into a sci-fi. Eeek! Well, hopefully they'll like my ideas.

[Dren Zhao]

Also, I really don't want her to "discover" scientific theories that are already known. For example, I don't want to make an apple fall on her head, and then her coming up with Gravity if the theory already exists and is known. That's quite the extreme example, but you get the idea.

[Syveris]

Assuming a PC knows what Ideas are, I guess they could. But I think it would be kind of stubborn on their part. I mean, only Gods are able to see Ideas, and that's what makes them a God. So, a person who can see Ideas would become a God. It's possible to happen, I think, if I understood Myri's lore correctly. But then, they would cease to be a person and become a God instead.

So I guess that if a character is instructed enough to know what Ideas are, they would also understand that they can't come from normal people. If they chose to, they would be either naive or stubborn.

Also, I think that Astronomy in Mizahar is much more rudimentar than that. Think of Aristotle's astronomy, not Galileo's. Aristotle thought objects had a tendency to go to the center of Earth, because they had come from Earth, and birds could fly because they were made of air. So, not quite Gravity, but a similar concept. And I'm not saying that's how Mizaharians think, but I think they wouldn't know things as eletromagnetism, at least, not the theory of it.

[Dren Zhao]

This is a lot of learning, but I love to learn. I love the feeling of adrenaline you get whenever you learn something new, which is why my character loves to learn so much as well. Aristotle's astronomy would be the most logical answer to my question, and the challenge would be moving away from that and into Galileo's.

Perhaps you are right about the first part, but I'm just as naive as my character is. What if its all wrong? PC's have ideas as well. (Without the capitol "I".) For example, my character writes a novel. Perhaps she writes Hamlet. That would be an idea. I think your character is a Glass-blower, so that requires some creativity on her part. If she created a piece of art that first appeared as an image in her mind, that would be in idea. Beliefs can be ideas as well. Say, if my character believes that Mizahar orbits around the sun, which would also be an idea.

The big argument is where did the ideas come from? The lore says the gods gave them as gifts to humanity, but my character believes otherwise. That is, she will, once she learns about all of this.

[Syveris]

Well, I don't see the problem. As long as you OCC understand the rules, the character IC don't need to agree with them. If it's in agreement with her personality, she can believe anything.

About developing new theories, just be sure first if it's applicable to Mizahar's word. For exemple, while the "discovery" of atoms is completely plausible in real world, it wouldn't be so in Mizahar. Your character will be very interesting. If she ever meets one of the characters I'm planning to make (a devoted), it'll be fun to see them interact. Good luck with you character.

[Dren Zhao]

I got a reply from Goss. She basically said its a bad idea. I'll need to think up another character concept.