[Gossamer's Scrapbook] The Ethereal Canyon I

[Gossamer]

What's Wrong With Graders

I was leaving this in Caelum's Scrap but decided to post it here instead of muddying up her thread even more.

I think people are missing the whole point on what's wrong with Graders. And this amuses me because if you can't even IDENTIFY the actual problem, how are you going to find a solution?

Even the Graders themselves don't understand. It's a simple enough problem and I think once pointed out its got a simple enough fix. Everyone's making a huge mountain out of a mole hill and it doesn't need to happen. The talk of discussion threads, rewrites, etc. We've talked about opening a forum just for thread award discussions, but the problem is graders aren't a 'group' in and of itself. The Grading Medal is an award, so the forum would be open to all and when that was pointed out, the graders frowned on it so it didn't happen. Plus, there for a while whether you realized it or not new subforums were crashing the code. Tarot has since now fixed that.

So, if your so smart Goss, what's the actual problem?

Oh... glad you asked. Here it is in a nutshell.

People are singular and linear thinkers. They see black and white and not shades of grey. Meaning, it's either this or that (like a cat or a dog), but never both.

Let me give you my AM/PM Graveyard analogy.

You go to a convenience store like 711, Circle K, AM/PM etc.... and they have this fountain drink display. It has everything from coke to pepsi, to diet, to seven up, to sprite, and fifteen other things including five kinds of rootbeer. People grab a soda container and think they have to decide what type of soda they get.... singularly. Coke? Pepsi? A Sports Drink? Orange Crush? But the reality is you can take whatever you want from whatever combo you want to choose and make whatever kind of graveyard you want. A graveyard is a soda that's made up of all the sodas in a fountain.

Huh? So how does this apply to Miz? Easy.

A fight scene on Mizahar is the same way. But most average people can't see it when grading. Two guys are tearing into each other, knocking out teeth and common sense, and all graders want to do is award unarmed combat and bad lores (brawling: It hurts to get your teeth knocked out - not a lore btw). But the reality of the fight is the above graveyard analogy. They could be doing tactics, unarmed, brawling (if someone grabs something laying around to bash someone else on the head etc), endurance, bodybuilding (lift your opponent over your head and try to fling them!), and any number of things. I've rarely seen a fight that's just a fight or just a weapons usage. Think about it.

Two people sitting around plotting world domination? Oh yea.. that's a whole host of things that doesn't equate to just planning. Tactics, strategy, intelligence, leadership, organization... just to name a few off the top of my head. But the average grader will skim the meeting and give ... yea... planning.

*YAWN* Seriously?

It's heartbreaking. And really, that's the gist of the problem of graders on Miz. The lores aren't even that big of an issue anymore. We have that fixed. But I have booted a few holdouts on retarded lores or lores that don't make any sense... (like Wedgies: Are painful... ) etc.

How do we fix it? Do we write more guides? Rewrite guides? Feel better and walk away having solved all the problems on Miz? Hell no... if all the blood sweat and tears poured into the first addition of the grading guide didn't work, your shiny rewrites thinly disguised as discussion threads aren't going to work either. And they are going to step on toes because that first guide was birthed via blood sweat and tears. Stop rewriting crap people. Write new shit. Seriously.

So how then?

People getting the awards need to kick it a little and hold an open dialog with the graders and ask them why they award like they do or why they didn't get expected thread awards. The answer will either be reasonable or it won't. If its not, take it to an ST and get the grader either talked too (if it is reasonable of the person requesting the change) or a further explanation.

If they don't want too? If they don't like confrontation? If they won't speak out? Then they don't deserve any better thread awards.

[Neologism]

I already got your opinion last night so I really don't have much to say. I just want to say something on it, though. I think there is really one thing that makes a quality grade: actually reading the thread. I'm sure we've all skimmed before, usually on the shorter threads that we think we can finish up quick, but if you aren't up to really reading a thread, then just don't grade at that time. No one is going to get on you about it. In the meantime, excuse me if I'm about to veer off topic. But.... My favorite soda mix is one part HiC, two parts grape fanta and three parts Dr.Pepper. Try it if you get a chance I swear it is good. I make it at work on occasion and everyone there thinks it's gross, but I would argue that xD

[Traverse]

C
I enjoy trying to find as many skills to award as make sense for a scenario. I usually pull up the skill list in its own tab when I'm grading to reference or check to see if there's any applicable skills I missed, and I like to think of it as a little puzzle/ game with each thread. I feel like everyone has a different way of finding their own grading groove, but approaching threads in this manner has really helped me get into grading whether its a long or short thread
C

[Rosela]

I know we talked about it briefly via AIM, but I figured I'd try to say something publicly. The grading guide was indeed birthed of blood, sweat, and tears and took a lot of effort to put together. A lot of heads were scratched to try and cover every base of knowledge one would need to know to grade a thread. For as much effort that went into it, that doesn't mean it's perfect, but, and as much as I'm an optimist, it never will be.

It is impossible to lay out every example of how something can be awarded in a thread. Every skill that may be misawarded, every type and severity of overgiving, every situation in which a lore may be awarded. To write a guide that covered literally everything would be to simply grade a thousand threads and ask that every grader study them to prepare themselves. It's not possible.

Rather than cover every possible topic of potential confusion, graders need to have the basic principles and apply them to each situation. Principles like being aware of people's skill levels, being aware of what's logical to occur in the setting of that city, and, as has been talked about lately, when and how to apply multiple skills to a single action. That last is closely related to it's neighbor - to thoroughly read each thread - but I don't think they're the same thing. Personally, I obviously try very hard not to skim threads, but I know for a fact I have a problem missing those secondary and peripheral skills. It's a matter of looking at something happening and not just defining what's happening and awarding that skill point, but asking yourself 'What other skills apply here?' However, sometimes I don't realize I'm making a mistake until it's pointed out to me.

This brings me to something else: I firmly believe everyone should read the grading guide, whether they're planning on becoming a grader or not. While it'd be lovely if every PC on this site had the motivation and/or time to be a grader, I know it's not realistic. But it is realistic to expect that anyone who writes a thread should have some idea of what they'll be awarded, and to be comfortable asking the grader about it if what they end up getting differs from that expectation. When both ends are doing their best to make sure every grade is correct, I think that's one way to help make sure the entire grading process runs smoother.

[Gossamer]

A Little Busy...

In the last two or three days I've been walking around in a haze of grief. But evidently that doesn't matter. Nothing matters but getting some shit done for others on here.

Here's what people have wanted in the last three days from me alone.

1. Rewrite the starting guide so its easier to understand.
2. Write a job guide on how to get one, keep one, and what the job expectations are.
3. Write up a Nakivak payscale list. Debt verses what they get paid. Granted, this was asked of me months ago, but I've been sending the last six months with my dying mom getting her diagnosed.
4. Catch up HD.
5. Make Maps for Endrykas and links that work on a codex.
6. Catch up job award thread and pay people.

Okay, I get it. That's all necessary. But that right there is probably two weeks of work folks. And I know I've forgotten something.

Oh yea. I gotta get features up. That will take most of the morning. And since the previous winner didn't turn in a featured thread we need to pick one. We'll do that. But first... I'm going to have some breakfast, try not to shake my head in disgust because heh... its only my first full weekend off (two whole days) in the last three... and well wow... no one wants much from me do they?

Jen

[Gossamer]

And btw if I do some writing for myself on my PC, don't get all pissed I'm not immediately slaving for you. I'll TRY to get to your issue asap. I want the features done first, then some downtime for me. I have earned it and need it.

[Timothy Mered]

If it helps, I could try to re-write the startup guide and just send you my work for review. Also, if there are other things I can help with aside from Grading, let me know and I'll do my best to help.

[Vizayas]

Do what you want to, Gossamer. It's okay if you slack, in fact it's healthy. Take some time off to get a breather. There might be more work if you wait, but you'll be happier to tackle it.

And thanks for everything you do for the site. I hope things get easier for you soon!

[Ball]

Goss, life is important, don't burn yerself out because people are expecting things. If I am one of them (don't think I am though cause I don't have anything pending on HD, or any of the other things mentioned unless I am missing something) but seriously, you have a lot on your shoulders and we understand that.

[Gossamer]

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You're welcome.