Trading Parameters and Execution

[Shadyn]

Hey.

So, I'm an Inarta Endal. Right now, I do hunting for my job. According to the Lore, however, branching out into Trading is perfectly acceptable.

I don't want to just transport, however...I want to do my OWN trading.

I checked and checked the Lore, however, and found barely ANYTHING about PC traders. Everything was oriented towards centralized businesses, not businesses that are by definition decentralized. I have spoken with people and mods, and they have told me that I am really the first person to come up with a practical means of doing this.

Soo.....

Here are my general plans, so that you can give me whatever help you can .

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Shadyn would purchase all the fine Inarta goods he can afford (prob about 300 gm worth, based upon the wages an Endal earns), put them on Xarrt (his Wind Eagle), and head to another city (Alvadas, most likely).

Some of his friends (PCs with whom I have already conversed and who live in Alva) will have already been hyping the coming goods for nearly 50 days by this point, so he will be widely known and expected (at least by enough people to buy the goods he has with him). Once there, he will sell the goods for a nice premium (considering nearly all Inarta goods are almost unheard of outside of Wind Reach, and certain named examples like Talon swords literally double in value outside of WR).

He will than take the profit, buy goods that will sell well in WR, and when he gets back to Wind Reach, sell those, buy more goods, return to sell them, etc.

Eventually, he will have hired other Inarta Endal trade-fliers to transport his goods, and will be selling them in multiple cities each season.
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The some of the problems that this business will have as opposed to normal businesses are as follows:
1) He will not REALLY be in any one city, although I suppose one could say that he is based out of Wind Reach.

2) He will only earn money a few times each season, not "per day".

3) If his trade expands greatly, he simply CANNOT be with multiple trade convoys at once. This would sorta make him "absentee", though he would be constantly (more or less) managing their progress.

4) What skill would form the basis of this business? There are no "Salesman", "Sales pitching", "Trading", or similar skills in existence (as far as the Skill List shows...). Really, it would just consist of Investigation or the like in regards to "knowing the market.


If you see other issues, let me know. Really, I think trading would be an awesome occupation, but the Lore has left me at a huge loss on how to actually execute this idea.

[Sayana]

I can only answer a couple of questions, and note that I might be wrong on my answers, but they are based on the lore that I know and a logical approach to it. 1) Another PC named Vazka did a courier job between cities. She was a kelvic bird (I think eagle). I believe she just had to get her job threads approved by one ST. If you're doing different trips out of Wind Reach, it probably makes sense to base it out of Wind Reach and thus get things approved through that ST. 4) General Merchants typically use "Leadership" as the job skill. Personally, I think that the skill "Negotiation" is more applicable to a trader since it covers the art of haggling. Essentially if you can haggle better than the people you're interacting with, then you'll get cheaper goods and you'll sell them for higher prices. Thus higher profits. I was once told by a ST that the master pricelist is the fixed price for all products regardless of the city. I was then told that the only way to gain a profit as a trader was to haggle (negotiation). And then I was told by another ST that you can't change the prices of things even with the Negotiation skill (which seems odd since haggling is mentioned in the description). So I don't really know where things stand on that within Mizahar.

[Petra Evgenis]

I'm super new but was curious about similar issues.

I don't really have the experience in the game to be sure, but I noticed there's a list of fixed prices. If Sayana's comment about haggling is still a possibility, that would make trading possible, but if the prices are always the same, then there's no opportunity to make money through reselling things. (everyone could buy them at the same price, so you could never sell for more than you paid.)

In this case, the only businesses are the 'centralized' ones, where where you produce something that costs nothing but time or skill. The more advantage in time or skill you had, the more you could produce.

Also, again I'm new, but as far as I can tell building a character sheet, you can buy things just by deducting them from a ledger. So even if players are buying something, no one has to trade to obtain an item.

BUT...

Imagine that there was some item - say, edged weapons - where to produce one short sword, you needed 1 pound each of iron (to refine) and coal (to heat the iron). Those cost 6 sm total and the sword would sell for 10 gm, so a swordsmith could make 9gm + 4sm profit per sword.

Further imagine that only Kalinor has coal, and coal miners never leave Kalinor. Iron might come only from Taloba, and their miners never leave home either. And maybe only Syliras has swordsmiths who can forge the weapons.

Finally, you could only get a sword by 1) making it, if you're a swordsmith, 2) buying one, or 3) somehow taking someone else's without paying for it.

All this would mean two trade routes to Syliras with raw materials, and routes from Syliras to other cities to sell the swords.

I have no idea if this would work for the game - but it would be a way to force trade to occur and would avoid the very messy business of creating a marketplace where the prices of individual goods rise and fall.

Maybe this is similar to the existing idea of 'Isurian Steel'? That seems to be in limited supply.

[Ball]

Also, Business is a key skill to have as a Trader as well.

I do want to make something clear though: Yes there are some items that are noted as far more expensive outside of the city of WR in regards to items... However! Much like the Isur and their beloved Isurian Steel, I think you might find it hardpressed to get enough support within WR to trade those goods.

Also, you are an Endal, not saying you can't trade... I just want you to understand that as an Endal your JOB is to protect, serve, and defend WR... Please, keep that in mind.

Petras: Similar surely... But trading is odd as there are mines all over the place...

[Petra Evgenis]

Ball - Yeah, if there are all types of mines everywhere, my suggestion wouldn't work.

It seems like part of the problem is, maybe there are few people who are serious about buying something, and they want something specific.

So maybe instead of buying stuff to carry around and then sell, Shadyn could find really rare and valuable stuff on a wealthy buyer's behalf, and then acquire and transport it for them for a fee?

[Dove Brown]

It's theoretically possible to turn some very nice profits in trading just by using the difference between the everyday market price and the trading goods price for the same item on the price list. No negotiation necessary.

For example: Buy salt at everyday prices (1 cm/oz), sell it off at trading goods price (5 gm/pound). Use the profit to buy flour at trading goods price (2 cm/pound) and sell it at everyday price (1-3 gm/pound).

[Neologism]

What you are describing is a business. You would have to fill out a Business Plan like everyone else. The occupation 'General Merchant' would be the exact job you are going for.

In the various cities of Mizahar there are those who engage in trade that doesn't quite fit into any specific category. These traders often operate out of wagons or tents and offer a wide variety of items instead of focusing on any particular good or service. (Must possess Leadership or Persuasion Skill to gain access to this occupation.)

Whichever skill you end up using most in your Job Threads would likely apply.

But becuase this is an inter-city business, there is extra approval needed. After getting approval from Gillar, you must go to each ST and ask permission to have your business reach into their city. For some cities it wouldn't make sense. For example, Lhavit wouldn't be open to anything but a highly organized trading system. This is becuase the city had enough resources to sustain itself and relies very lightly on trade, and as a result it would negate the city's economy.

Now I'm not the most knowledgable on the city's wages and living expenses, but I imagine the system is in place becuase of how the city shares its resources. Even as an Endal, I don't think you can earn your WR wages as well as outside wages. Neither am I terribly knowledgable on the businesses within WR, but I do beleive there is already a Wind Eagle trade, in which case you can simply join them. Again, I am not the last word in this and it is key that you consult Verilian on that matter.

However, do listen to the above paragraphs, else you will find yourself in a tangle of different STs approving different things. And again, you must make sure you thread out the work if you wanted to trade things individually.

[Shadyn]

Great info here..


So, just to clear up about being an Endal...

Trading is one of the jobs an Endal can hold. I would technically become an Endal Trader. The Lore makes no mention of whose goods they are trading...which leads me to presume (from my studies of it) that they are general caravans carrying goods from many different individual merchants.

What I would do is offer those merchants (glassblowers, weaponsmiths, bowyers/fletchers, etc.) the chance to get their money immediately, while I then funded the traders with my own money to carry my newly acquired goods, then sell them elsewhere for profit.

Eventually, however, while I would still be personally making trading trip, my goods would be carried on many different Wind Eagles (perhaps many is an exaggeration, but you get the idea) in addition to my own, going to various locations. Thus, I would still be doing my own job, with my buying/selling being in addition to that.

[Fable]

Thank you, everyone, for you thoughts on the matter.

For the time being, please refrain from any more replies! There is currently a trade system that is in place, but it isn't quite established in terms of lore. With the creation of The Mischief, the Kalea team has been working to see how resources circulate the region. I apologize if this in inconvenient, however as STs, we try to work on projects as their needs arise, which it seems in this case, it has. Please bear with us for a little longer while we get some clear and decisive answers, for the Kalea region at the very least.

In regards to what Neo said, however, she is correct. If you're wanting to create a trade route, that would be considered a player business and would need to go through the proper channels as well as to gain the ok of the various story tellers who's cities are involved, this is an OOC rule regardless of your character's IC position for the sake of game continuity. Thank you for understanding.