Cipher "Language"

[Raigler]

(To skip straight to the point, go to the bold part.)

This question stems from the idea that when one has practiced a skill long enough, it becomes almost like a "language" to them. An immediate example would be, well, learning a language! At first it's memorization - amigo means male or generic friend - but after using the word enough, it becomes natural - the word friend in your native language. That is, you don't have to translate amigo to friend consciously, if at all.

A less immediate example is counting in Go (where points, or intersections, are counted sometimes in the middle of the game). It's a difficult and arduous process at first, because the intersections are a pain to count. But as you get more used to counting, you begin to see - I can't think of a better word - patterns. This shape means 9 points, this one is 6, this one is 7, etc. This also becomes unconscious with practice.

So after ALL that, what's my point? Suppose you've come up with a simple text cipher that shifts each letter one forward in the alphabet, wrapping around at 'Z'. (So, A->B, Z->A.) After practicing this cipher enough, would it not begin to form a sort of "second alphabet", and, subsequently, a second language?

Can a cipher count as a language in the starting package?

Phew. =)

[Stitch]

I would personally say no. A language would fall under the languages of the Races that exist in Mizahar. Basic being the most common spoken tongue, of course. You know what I am talking about here. All of the languages are listed here, and the Starting Guide tells you that you can pick your languages from there.

Your cipher would fall under Cryptography, I am fairly sure. Therefor, it would be governed by that skill.

Does this make sense?

On a total side note, what is your rank in Go? Do you still play?

[Raigler]

I've only just started playing. =) My rank on KGS as of now is 15k, but that's because the last couple of ranked games I've played were against weak 16-17k's. I'd wager I'm still around 18-19k. If you're on KGS, I'd love a game!

I've planned on putting points in Cryptography for the cipher, but I figured the skill itself was more for creating/breaking codes. For example, the cipher my character will be using is a horribly simplified version I use to encrypt my own stuff. I figured he'd add on greater complexity to the code as he gets better in the skill.

Actually using the cipher seemed like a language. I'm sure we've all made up languages as kids, even if they were stupidly simple things, like just coming up with an alphabet. That's basically what my character's cipher would be - a new alphabet.

So for example, if the cipher was to change all As to Bs (where all other letters are lowercase, so the alphabet would be: Bbcde...z), it wouldn't take long before you could read something like, "Bbbot Brnold Bte B cBt" without thinking. In other words, the usage of the cipher as a natural language, versus the creating and breaking as a skill. Becoming accustomed to using a cipher naturally doesn't seem to correlate with the skill of creating/breaking.

Of course it could be argued that cryptography is a lore, a collection of methods for encrypting/decrypting. Everything's up to interpretation, so I'll go along with the majority vote, whatever it is.

[Stitch]

I can understand your reasoning. To me, why I thought the skill would be used for it... There is one particular line in the Skill Progression section.

The cryptographer is a novice at making and breaking codes. They will probably notice when a code is being used, but will only be able to break very simple codes, and their own repertoire of codes will likewise be very limited.

The last part. The repertoire. To my understanding, with this sentence, the skill also governs how many codes you "know". I suppose you could use it as a language to, or it could be a combination of lores and such. That is just my interpretation! Whatever the case, if I see one of the higher ups, I will be sure to point the thread out to them so you can get your definite answer from the definite law. <3333

Also, a game on KGS would be great. I will definitely hit you up for that sometime. I am about an 8 kyu, but it has been quite awhile since I have played.

[Raigler]

An analogy I came up with while I was just in the shower (the birthplace of many an idea ;]) is of a master artist and a common citizen.

Only the artist could create a piece like the Mona Lisa, but the artist could "teach" the commoner to recognize the painting - this is her face, her posture, etc. The commoner has no chance of recreating the Mona Lisa even if he has all the information. He doesn't know the methods to paint nor have the skill to do so.

This is how I see the cipher. If the code is the painting, the cryptographer is the artist, and any person is the citizen. A commoner could learn the cipher (if I have "cat", I do this and this to change it to "3982 *star*", then I do this and this to change it back). The commoner couldn't, however, create his own of the same level (If I have "cat", I do this and this to change it to... "cat"... darn!).

That line in the lore confuses me, too. It could mean your own original codes, which would fit into the concept I've been imagining. Or perhaps it means methods of encrypting (letter shifting, symbol replacing, whatever). Of course, the term used is "limited", which could mean either in quantity or quality.

Or! Maybe the lore itself is encrypted. *gasp*

[Gossamer]

Cipher is not a language. You need to pick languages from our list. You can be a cryptographer though I'm not sure there's much call for it in game. There might be, but you'd have to find the right moderator and someone as interested in the art as you are.