Should people be able to start as Knights?

[Dusk]

sorry jen, didn't mean to put words in your mouth. i assumed by your calling the issue an elephant in the room and praising that it was brought up that you agreed that it was a problem. my bad.

[Stitch]

I get tired of the whole skills discussion, to be honest. It's great to have them, don't get me wrong, but they mean next to nothing in the grand scheme of the game. Torc is crafting the All Key, a massively powerful artifact, without even having competent skills, and you know what? He can do that because he's an awesome writer. If people enjoy grinding, that's fine by me, but keep in mind that we don't have the same preferences. For me, it's the stories that matter.

Is this true? I know this is off topic, and I can make a new thread if Dusk wants... but does writing quality beat out skill points? If I am understanding this correctly, then if I write out "Fishing" in a better fashion than Ulric, who obviously has more points than me... would I win a fishing contest, even with no notable (if any) fishing skill?

I just wanted to bring this up. It concerns me a bit. Was Torc granted additional powers within the thread, or is he actually crafting a powerful item with skill points he doesn't have? That isn't fair to the players who are bound by their skill points.

Does that make sense? Not to step on any toes. I just wanted clarification here. <3333

I think having Skill Point requirements for a Knight are just fine, personally. I haven't completely read through the thread (I am at work, and need to type this out fast), but it seems logical that a Knight would have to have a certain level of skill. Why were the two people who started as Knights allowed around this rule?

I may be missing something, but I wanted to bring it up. <3333

[Ulric]

Stitch, that was more a rant deriving from my pent-up frustrations than a desire to dismantle the skills system. I addressed both your questions in my follow-up post, but let me do so again. Torc will create the Key under the auspices of an epic quest, where story rightly trumps pedantry. I abide, quite happily, under the edict of the founders that a character's ability relies upon both their skills, and to a lesser extent, the quality of the writing. It's a good system. If I say points are meaningless in the grand scheme, it's because I'm thinking in a grander scheme, of the character that exists beyond their skills. I don't think skills are very important in that sense. I get very, very annoyed when people, as Faroul explained, use them as a barrier to creativity. If you're capable of playing a good knight, why should you be denied that ability? So you get a wage, and a few perks. How unfair. I wonder, how many neglectful knights are out there? Nobody is pointing fingers. The thing that gets me is that this isn’t a relevant problem. It’s not as if Syliras has a bunch of freeloading knights. It barely has any knights, and if the restrictions went through, its meager recruiting would plummet.

As Gossamer said, this one is a no brainer. It’s not a pervasive problem. It’s something storytellers can resolve on their own, without having to remove a greater sort of freedom. Squires get the short end of the stick, of course, because they have to wait to achieve the benefits. But they knew that when they signed on. It may seem unfair if you put in a lot of work, but it’s not right to deny that same freedom of choice to others.

However inflammatory my statements usually are, the only point I intended to make was that players have different styles, and that allowing them to start as knights is accommodating to those differences. I just get annoyed when I perceive a mountain being made out of a molehill.

[Stitch]

No, your comments didn't sound inflammatory at all. I think you sounded quite nice, really. If it was a rant, you sure hid it well! <333

Thank you for explaining yourself out a bit more, though. I just now got the chance to sit down and read the thread fully, and after reading your follow-up comment, and your comment here... I understand what you meant, now. Thanks for being patient with me when I hadn't seen all of the thread, and was posting prematurely!

Now that Stitch has been informed, the rest of you can continue with the discussion. xD

[Irriari]

I don't know if anyone has said this yet- I read only the first page, but bear with me. If people just starting become knights, what about other groups, like Ebonstryfe, for example? The requirements are just as big. Would people also be allowed to join into other groups when they start playing the game?

I'm not trying to steer the thread off topic, and sorry if I do, but this does seem like a Mizaharian precedent in the making and I wanted to offer an alternate point of view.

[Wystern]

Quite the opposite about Ebonstryfe, a player can have more than enough points to start in Ebonstryfe, requirements for them are a little more lenient; Shinya's requirements can be flashbacked, it's already outlined.

The Syliran Knights' requirements are the toughest, and this debate has surfaced to show for it.

[Vetala]

Sahova only has one group that people could join and that would be ranked wizards. Rather easy overall and any starting player can join without much of a problem.

[Irriari]

My bad. For some reason, I thought the reqs were higher.

[Jonathon DuFraine]

Hmm. A conundrum, just like all good discussions. Jonathon is Syliras-raised, but he isn't a knight... although maybe one day he will be. Although that probably won't be anytime soon.

I think the best solution would be to let people start as Knights, but to tie up their hands a bit to achieve the goal. Like making it so like 60 of the starting package has to be into Knightly skills, or lower wages until the skills have been met. After all, some don't have the patience to grind up 60 points of skill; kudos to those who do, excellent people, but then the knights would be a bit sparse in membership. They would be full of semi and fully veteran players, which would be cool, but there wouldn't be enough to create a diverse and powerful organization.