Martial Skills

[Kvar Driftweaver]

Sighard - Would you suggest the tactics skill would cross over here? That might be the start of some levelling factors. You raised some great points, thanks for that. However there is still that individual factor you suggest that is very much down to mod interpretation, what is and what isn't applicable to a certain weapon type etc. Rage raised this too, it seems very much down to taste at the moment, as to what fits where.

I really appreciate this guys and girls, as it helps me write my own posts more in line with what is expected by anyone moderating it. At the moment I am considering covering all axe types in my training with Kvar, which seems excessive but fits how I understand axes to work, familiar but not the same.

[Rage]

I think you confuse 0xp with 'not being able to use it properly'. Weapon skills aren't the same as magic skills; the moment you pick up a weapon, you can use it. A parry is a parry, a swing is a swing, a stab is a stab no matter what kind of weapon you have in your hands. You may just not be as good with it as the one you're proficient with, but the ability to utilize it to defend yourself is always there. Take the skill of Dual Wielding for example, just because you have 0xp in it doesn't mean I'll prevent you from holding two weapons at the same time, that's just ridiculous. It only means you can't use them in tandem. In the same vein, if someone proficient in Greatsword picks up a Flamberge or a Claymore, I'll allow the close similarities argument and treat their use of those weapons as if they're using a greatsword. But I'll only award XP in Greatsword (because, really, wouldn't you want more XP in the skill you already have than have it allocated into a new skill?). Granted, how STs grade threads is subjective, so how this is viewed would vary between ST to ST. Bottomline, as an ST and a player, I can see both sides of the argument. I mean, I used to argue why Throwing Daggers and Melee Daggers can't be rolled into one skill. But, again, I believe this aspect of the rules is in place to maintain gameplay balance. That all there is to it.

[Kvar Driftweaver]

You know seeing these passionate opinions I have just donated . I realised I care enough, and many more writers do too, well worth supporting this place.

I often push for common ground and clarity, for anyone searching for the same question equally. I guess I just need to meet up and gradually find a few ST's that have the same opinion as you do rage, that some weapon types have some crossover. If I find that I won't need 20 axe skills or 20 sword skills with my martial characters, then it makes things much easier, which was in all fairness the point of the post.

I have at present been avoiding picking two weapons up at the same time , but I shall stop that silliness now on your advice.

[Eryss Waldu]

I’ve skimmed this topic and it does bring several things to mind. When it comes to complete martial skill I think that some skill is transferable to similar weapons. I’d use real world application as my example in this case. I have a small collection of knives that I’ve been building since I was a kid and while I’m by no means a master in the use of any of these my basic knowledge of them transfers from one to another fairly easily. I’ve also handled several swords, etc over the years and going back and forth between the majority of the similar blades isn’t that difficult all things considered. When it comes to handling similar items the largest difference is usually the length and the weight in my opinion which coincidently can also change the basic applications of that weapon. Now take that example into a game perspective. I’d say realistically a man who was an expert with a Longsword could probably pick up a Broadsword, which is fairly similar, and use that at a competent level but if that same expert tried to use a short sword or gladius, which is a smaller sword in comparison and has a different general application, he’d probably only be able to use it at a basic level. Just my thoughts on the matter. On that note too I don’t think that an expert with the Longsword would be able to use a Scimitar at even a basic level because of the difference in design between the swords. Whereas a Longsword shares the same basic properties as a Broadsword and even a Short Sword to some extent (they are all straight blades after all though they possess different weights, lengths and excel at different forms of offense) it is vastly different from a Scimitar, Rapier, Falchion, etc in my opinion and so the skill wouldn’t transfer over at all. As Rage said above though you can pick any weapon and thinks are still the same a parry is still a parry an attack is still an attack. I don’t know anything about Axes, Bows or some other general weapons so I won’t pretend to even fathom how a skill might be transferable from one to another in their particular range of alternates. The game is set up extremely well though and honestly I wouldn’t change a thing though. I tend to look at the matter of weapons in the sense that most people have one or two weapons of choice and spend the majority of their time mastering these anyways. The system in place mirrors that in my opinion which I like.

[Xalet]

In the same vein, if someone proficient in Greatsword picks up a Flamberge or a Claymore, I'll allow the close similarities argument and treat their use of those weapons as if they're using a greatsword. But I'll only award XP in Greatsword (because, really, wouldn't you want more XP in the skill you already have than have it allocated into a new skill?). Granted, how STs grade threads is subjective, so how this is viewed would vary between ST to ST.

Seems fair enough to me.

[Lyner]

I just came across the topic and everyone does have their points. I have to say I do like Eryss' idea a lot, that if you were to use a weapon that shares similar qualities to your favored weapon you should be able to use it at a lower proficiency level that is probably going to be subject to a moderator's discretion.

The question of how well you'll be using your weapon seems to me a question that would be answered by a few others, namely: Is the weapon in the same weapon class? Is the weapon similar in make to your original weapon? (A very good comparison being the aforementioned Claymore/Flamberge comparison.) Is the weapon's length and mass different? Is the weapon's shape radically different from that of your original weapon? I think after answering all those questions and if it looks like your weapon is a very close match for the new one you're using, you should be able to use it really well... or just as well in the rare cases of weapons that are almost identical like the Xiphos and Gladius.

In the end I think your character's performance with the weapon he'll be using will rely on what your moderator thinks of the task your character is trying to perform. The skill system here is pretty good at what it does, its effective at giving moderators a measure of your character's ability and a sensible moderator will know when to take the similar nature of weapons into consideration. I think mutual trust here is what wins the day. In my short time here the moderators have been very nice to me and have been willing to dispense advice freely. (Thanks Liar, Leviathan & Fallacy!) I find it unlikely that we'll ever have problems with a moderator not taking a PC's skills with something into account when he tries to perform a task.