[Discussion] Evil Gnosis' and Evil Itself

[Gossamer]

Hey Guys...

I've got something on my mind that I wanted to talk to you about. In reviewing the Gnosis List and what needs developed, I noted that a great deal of our Gnosis is geared towards neutral or even positive 'lightside' huggy feely type stuff. So in that light I've been working hot and heavy on Blight.

Vayt is a very charismatic god, but hes evil as sin. Think of him as personable, approachable, and a sort of Grisholm that plays with little bugs rather than beetles. His gnosis is going to allow people who follow and are marked by him to spread disease, augment existing disease, and be sworn to think the populations that are once again on the rise down considerably.

I have a cool idea for a gnosis of geas'. But Its going to take some working out to create either a god for it or adapt it to the current pantheon we have.

Frankly, besides Chaon, we don't have anything like this. We need more of it. I'd like to gather your opinion about what sort of things you'd like to see go in for the evils. Even if you just pipe in a line or two, that can be helpful and spark an idea.

I'll also attach a poll. Keep in mind I don't care if this conversation gets dark or has elaborate comments. We need to expand and encourage evil and good, villains, etc... we just need some idea of what people want.

[Liminal]

I'm a huge fan of evil. ^_^

I would mention that gnoisis is a tool, and tools can be used for good and bad ends. Even something as innocuous as Priskil's "hope in the face of adversity" could cut both ways -- the adversity could be the Syliran knights, rather than the powers of evil. I think of most of the gods as devoted to their Ideas above all else, and I can see the ends justifying the means for many of them.

Which doesn't mean I don't want blight, death, and destruction. I'm just saying. ^_~

[Gossamer]

Yup yup... I totally get that too. A Stormwarden can probably destroy a city if they released enough storm gems all at the same time and had saved them up in game.... but that being said, there's a lot of gnosis that feels 'goodie' like healing... and we should have some that are obviously darker.

We should have some obviously darker bents to the game all around. Ravok is a prime example. But I'm just wondering what people are interested in and what floats their boat evil wise.

[Alistair deGrey]

Okay, there are a lot of evil concepts in Mizahar already. The problem I'm seeing is nobody is following through with them

Yes

1) It says Zeltiva has relatively frequent famines in its write up. That should be followed through on. Maybe even famines elsewhere.

2) The Mizahar wildlands are already supposed to be dangerous, so I voted bandits.

3) I think the wild Djed idea is a pretty amazing idea. (Is recalling the wild Djed fire that Tarot used as a plot hook). Yes, and the uncontrolled Djed could be used secondarily to warp more creatures and even destroy terrain.

4) I've already made it a mini-mission of mine to make some PC-Killers (as I recall somebody so lovingly call them). After I finish the Nuzem (which probably won't kill anybody unless a mod roleplays a freak accident where one attacks a ship), I have a few nastier monsters lined up. Especially for those pesky magicians.

5) I think it would be lovely to see people get robbed on the road here and there. Folks get too attached to their items. It would be a real B____ to lose your family heirloom (not to mention a great plot hook). Also, it seems rather likely for something like that to happen, with people scrounging for resources in certain places.

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No's

1) There are already tons of Deities. We should flesh out existing ones before we create new ones.

2) NO MIND CONTROL. I can see tons of abuse for this, particularly on other PCs. I mean, its got to be frustrating to have some bastard with a Gnosis mark or two take over your character and have them commit suicide.

Or, it could end up like Hypnotism (You know what I'm talking about Goss ), where people "Are too strong of willed and too badass to be mind controlled!"

[Malia]

I voted for ...

Mind control, because I see it as a real challenge to rp out. This concept is not frequently used, so PCs will have difficulty finding out what they can do to protect themselves against someone else controlling their minds. On the other hand, if a PC possesses such powers, there should be major dangers included (I think Cordas is a very good example!). Plus, PvP battles would become even more interesting.

More evil gods, or rather, the emphasize of the neutral attitude of most gods. I know from experience that it shows through when they appear in rp, but I think in the wiki some gods are described on a superficial basis. I believe this should get better as soon as more gods and gnosisi have detailed writeups. (I just voted for this, because I don't think that there are too many gods ... )

Wild Djed, because it provides a lot of opportunities. As a mod you can do anything with Djed gone wild ... I also like the idea of mages losing control of their familiars and those creatures wreaking havoc!

Expand or promote the evil races! Or rather, find writers who really want to play the evilness of those races as opposed to those who make the nice exception to the rule. Those players are cool because they twist the race's concept into what they want which is difficult, I think, but we also need evil PCs ... But I don't really know how we can do that.

Oh, and maybe the mods should start giving out negative gnosis marks ... that would spread word about the evil side of some gods pretty fast, I think.

I hope this helps.

[Eanos]

I have to say that I'm not keen on the mind control. Given the setup of the skill system here, everyone can learn it, which will mean that everyone will learn it because its too important not to. Anyone who wants to build a political career, who wants to win a bargain in the marketplace, to steal, to protect themselves from the above will all have to slot it into their skill set.

As Larry Niven once said about his Known Universe series, it's easy to create neat ideas to solve particular plot issues, but from then on you have to consider why that idea cannot be used to solve every future plot hook. I think mind control is just too powerful, it can be used in every situation, every thread to give PCs a winning advantage. Want to win a fight? Want a mage to give you a magic sword? Want to make the evil monster not eat you? Want a job?....

[Crush]

No to mind control for me, for the reasons Morse has already outlined. There are too many deities as well. There is so much as too much of a good thing. in regards to making 'evil' itself: 1) Zith and Symenestra need to have things a bit harder on them. If they're supposed to be evil then lets make them evil. There not to most friendly much of killers lets be fair. 2) More bandits, thugs, whatever. They need to be tougher and more frequent. I hate to say it but since when has humanity ever gotten along perfectly well after something even vaguely disastrous. 3) Djed, fragment monsters, diseases and plagues under fall under the same branch for me. This is a post apocalyptic world and I think people have it too easy to be honest. Finally, I'd just like to note, I will be doing my part to make things a little tougher in regards to this once Alvadas is completely up and running.

[Talhar]

I like alot of these ideas but especially the one about leftover Djed warping animals/things and perhaps even humans. Djed is a huge part of Mizahar yet it is rarely used other than a requisity for using magic as a PC.

I would love to see more warped things in the RP and I'll try to do my part to make it a more Djed-filled world ^^

[Karona Isenbach]

As somebody who is trying to portray a very vile and evil character, allow me to give out my own opinion. Firstly, I simply play my character according to how I perceive evil. Even though she is subject to Rhysol due to her possession of his gnosis mark, I tend to think that she is somewhat independent in her own actions. Regardless of his whim, she just goes around and tries to be a pestilence everywhere she goes. I know this sounds rather annoying, but that's just the way she is. This style influenced the reasons why I voted for the following: a) Singular Bad Guys that are super freaks! - Since my character is one. There ought to be more around, but I tend to think that people are too afraid of being disliked/avoided. Not many people can revel in such a position, however I would like to encourage those who may wish to try this option for a character to go ahead: evil characters are much, much rarer than good-aligned ones, and they have much more freedom in their actions because they aren't limited by society's rules (of course repercussions are still there). Besides, in Mizahar, every character is appreciated, and much more often than not, OOC goodwill is separate from IC hatred and vice versa. b) More fragment monsters - these rock! - Fragment monsters add a lot of depth and mysteriousness to the world. I don't know about other people, but the prospect of uncovering the story of some long forgotten god through meeting a part of them is quite exciting for me. And dangerous monsters are always cool, provided that they are kept in a numbers check. c) More evil gods - we can never have enough evil in the world! - Rhysol is the only famous god who is aligned with evil, but there are indeed more. There should be more. Not a whole panthenon of them of course. Most mythological panthenons have only one evil god in its midst, and they usually serve very important purposes i.e. Loki. However since Mizahar has evolved from the desire to be different, why not revamp this age-old for the lore's benefit? d) Violence should be more commonplace. Raiders, thieves, brigands should be more powerful than they are - especially outside the city. - These make for very interesting roleplay opportunities, especially since it would provide people with training and maybe some loot. Everybody likes to showcase their characters' skills in combat, and the random NPC bandit is always the best choice for the dirty work.

[Gossamer]

You guys are being super helpful and informative. Thank you all for taking the time to post your thoughts on this topic. I agree with the majority of whats being said but again wanted to post a variety of 'ideas' to see what people gravitated towards. I also agree its very hard playing evil... a lot harder than do-gooders.

Keep the comments coming!