[Discussion] Para-Elements

[Javen Vyta]

A reimancer of that level would probably be a Master Noodlemancer as well - or Sauceror.

[Chaelnomyl]

AJ,

I agree with Crystal and Vegetation. Those make perfect sense. Mass storm for fire water air also makes sense though I'm not sure I like the wording mass storm... Maybe we could say "varying storms" or something like that to indicate that it encompasses all storm types? Mass is a little misleading. Unless I misinterpreted what you said.

Would be interested to see Tarot's input on what's been agreed on so far

[Tarot]

As a foreword, I'm not too concerned with D&D (which I've never really played either, unless playing Baldur's Gate qualifies). All fantasy uses the same elements and their para-elements, unless they go with the five Eastern elements anyways.

I'd like to remind you that personal magic in Mizahar is quite narrow in its scope, so I wouldn't say a master could create anything. That would be too much for one discipline - wizards have very specific limits that can sometimes be circumvented, but only if they take some kind of gamble on it. I would say masters could combine the four elements into the Fifth Element as the pinnacle of their craft... properties being up for grabs. I kinda planned on using Anaximander's "apeiron" as inspiration, but it slipped into the cracks of quick development.

I'd have to say no to vegetation - Reimancy is definitely not about life and even less about giving life. Personal magic is morbidly selfish as it is powered by the ego (just wait till I write Leeching - selfishness to the extreme). It will make things disappear that you don't like... it will give you power... it will give you information... but won't give life. I'm not sure we actually need explicit descriptions for three-element combos... unless you could make them into really simple concepts (a bit simpler than 'pyroclastic cloud' )

Two-element combos I like... I suggest making Air+Earth = sand, and Earth+Water = mud. What do you think?

[Javen Vyta]

So Fire + Fire = bomb? Yeah baby turn on the pyrotechnics! >:)

[Akuaysun]

Tarot,

Sounds good to me, I wasn’t hip on the idea of sand but there really isn’t much in the way of options that makes sense otherwise. I will switch that over, as for making the level threes simple if you don’t think they need names then I have no issues axing them.

As for my reference to all four elements, I was meaning that they could do anything within the confines of the art.

So I will add sand, to Earth + Air, kill off level three and four as I don’t see them becoming much simpler then that, as a combination of three is a relatively complex construction anyway.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd… with that I think we have a closed discussion unless any have objections of note?

AJ

[Akuaysun]

One element

Fire - Flame
Water - Water
Air - Wind
Earth - Rock, Soil, Etc.

Two elements

Fire + Water = Steam or Fog
Fire + Earth = Lava
Fire + Air = Lightning
Water + Air = Ice, waterspouts
Water + Earth = Mud
Air + Earth = Sand

[Nya Winters]

AJ you should post that in punnett square formats (mileage charts are similar etc). It makes much more sense than in list format. Elements on each side, follow the chart across to see what combos produce what... found in the center. When I have time later, I can whip one up if you need an example.

I also agree that these sorts of wizards shouldn't be creating life. I'm finding ice a little bit of a stretch too. To me water and air make rain - in all its various hideous forms. Temperature shouldn't come into play. Just because Fire is hot - that's its nature. Water by its very nature isn't usually ice. These aren't weathermancers that can fine tune temps... If you put fire to rocks, you normally get singed rocks or maybe really really hot rocks, but lava? Are you sure an average fire reinmancer can produce that sort of heat? Just a few of my thoughts. I know these are fantastical mages, but some of this seems a stretch. Sand isn't. Mud isn't. Waterspouts great, even Tornados for those really gifted at air. But some of it is stretching things, in my mind.

[Akuaysun]

Lava and Ice actually come from the Riemancy write-up as citations of para-elements and as such were what spurred this whole discussion as Tarot currently has it posted as water + earth = Ice.

As for the chart I have no issues coding one up for you guys to use in the actual Wiki page when the Para-elements page is setup, just went with something simple for this discussion.

Anyway though, that is where those references come from. Syfec and I just wanted to expand upon this.

[Syfec Morbus]

So is this ready for the wiki?

[Syfec Morbus]

I'd like to bring this back into relevance. What was decided on the Lava and Ice combos, and if everything is okay, I can put this in the wiki. Or you can