Illiteracy

[Glen Fiddich]

Couldn't find anything on this in the lore pages - sorry if I missed something!

Are there any special rules regarding illiteracy / being unable to read in Mizahar? Is it something that I can add in without consequence, or is it something I will need to talk to an ST about getting included in my storyteller secrets? Does it have any impact on whether languages can count as fluent/basic/etc on my character sheet, or is noting down that I am illiterate for those languages enough?

Thanks for the help!

[Caelum]

Fluency in a language on your CS includes fluency in all forms of that language. This includes verbal, written, and sign. Notably, some of the Mizahar languages don’t have a written form and I think only Pavi has a sign form (i.e. grasslands signs). So if you’re fluent in Common, then you are literate in Common. If you’re poor in Common, you are only kind of sort of not really literate in Common. However, if you would like to be fluent in Common but illiterate at the same time for story purposes, then you’re welcome to. You might want to denote it on your sheet under your languages. E.g. Common: Fluent (Verbal Only). Hope this helped.

[Nemesis]

so I wrote a massive response to this and as I was posing it my browser crashed, so here's a succinct version with the main points... (okay, maybe not more succinct)...

Linguistically speaking, anyone can pick up any language, as long as they have the correct biological apparatus (i.e. humans can't learn zithanese). Thus any human could learn any other language that humans speak, as long as they are exposed to enough of it that is reasonably acceptable for them to gain a certain level of proficiency.

I have to wonder, however, why you want your character to be illiterate and have three languages. If he is illiterate, I would assume that he would have no education, thus why would he be exposed to three languages? Maybe two, if, say, his mother spoke one language and his father spoke another... or if society spoke two languages naturally. But I can't understand why or how an uneducated human would be expose to (or be interested in) learning three languages.

Also there is what we can a "critical period" and it is harder to learn languages when one is past puberty. This would be exacerbated by illiteracy,bas they do not have the same learning mechanisms at their disposal that someone who is literate has, therefore a character learning a language in adulthood would likely never gain full fluency, possibly even not a conversational level. Does that make sense? Any languages he knows well enough would have had to have been learnt at birth.

Also remember that Mizahar isn't like our world. Yes, there are a few people from different cultures living in different cities, but for the most part, the average Ravokian is unlikely to be exposed to Myrian, and a Myrian is probably not going to know any Pavi. There is no internet by which to learn a far off language. So why does your PC know these languages, and who taught him, but didn't give him a traditional education, or literacy skills?

Finally, there are two languages that can be classed as dead (Arumenic and Nader-Canoch). An illiterate PC would NOT be able to learn a dead language. They have no mechanisms available for them to master - or even start to learn - them.

So... in closing:
- all players should be thinking about why their PCs know languages, but illiterate PCs especially. Unless you can come up with a legitimate reason as to why your PC knows these languages, then no.
- there is nothing wrong with a PC knowing one language. In truth, it is probably much more normal. Most Mizaharians probably never leave the city they were born in. So why on earth would a Syliran know Nari?
- no dead languages. It's just not possible without high literacy.

It's my feeling that the only way for people to gain competency in a language is either by exposure from birth (caretaker communication) or prolonged exposure (living in a society). So if your PC is, for example, a Ravokian who has never left the city, with two Ravokian parents who have also never left, with no education, I would seriously wonder why your PC would know anything other than Common. Same goes for almost any other city, unless it specifically says that multiple languages are spoken regularly in the city.

Hope this helps! Happy writing.

[Glen Fiddich]

I have to wonder, however, why you want your character to be illiterate and have three languages. If he is illiterate, I would assume that he would have no education, thus why would he be exposed to three languages? Maybe two, if, say, his mother spoke one language and his father spoke another... or if society spoke two languages naturally. But I can't understand why or how an uneducated human would be expose to (or be interested in) learning three languages.

In Glen's case, the first two are spoken by his society, like you're suggesting; the third language is something he learned as part of his backstory, so there's going to be a justification for it.

I wouldn't go as far as saying he's illiterate because he's uneducated though... it's more that his education was aimed elsewhere? In the same sort of way that the Drykas have an oral history instead of writing stuff down, and thus don't have many books around, I'm sorta thinking that Glen probably had less access to reading material because of being a Svefra and there being limited cargo space on boats... he just never really practiced his way past a "the cat sat on the mat" reading level, and never had any real inclination to learn until it was already "too late"?


Thanks for the help, guys - I got exactly the info I was looking for!

[Gossamer]

Caelum is 100% right on how we view language and literacy on Mizahar. If you know the language, you are literate in it. You can't be a smart intelligent person and not have had at least basic schooling be it at home, in your pod, or in a formal setting. Otherwise its just not functional in this landscape. And beyond that, it makes very little sense as well.

[Sayana]

So I came across this topic a bit randomly, but it's starting to bother me.

Sayana, an Eypharian from Ahnatep, speaks Common fluently and Arumenic to a lesser degree (basic), but she is essentially illiterate in both (she knows her letters in Common and can pick out a few words as well as numbers).

For a world that is comprised of essentially city states, where is organization needed for a standard education process? And for families of a lesser class and income, how would they find time to teach reading and writing to their children? Also, books and writing implements are not typically cheap. For a city like Zeltiva with its own university, I could understand that literacy would be widespread, but other cities especially ones that are struggling or don't have a strong bureaucratic organization system, it bothers me that illiteracy is unheard of.

Sayana learned both her languages growing up (at least I /thought/ that Arumenic was spoken by Eypharians in Ahnatep), but even though her parents tried to teach her reading and writing she did not catch on easily and soon grew frustrated by it and focused on other aspects of her life. Note, she is not one I would call a "smart and intelligent person".

[Gossamer]

Way back when, someone did a writeup (a staffer) that was never completed on the whole basic education system of Mizahar. Basically its each cities responsibility to supply education for its citizens ie Children up to a certain age. It has ZERO to do with wealth or social status with the noted exception being slaves which are not actually treated as people but as property.

Slave owners can educate at will or not.

So the only PCs that shouldn't have a basic education in reading, writing, and math are the ones that grew up in slavery (say a zith colony) or were out in the wilderness. And if they were out in the wilderness, they probably didn't survive.

So in essence, every pc, even kelvics, should have a basic education in the three main staples. It can bother you all you want it too... and you can write your history the way you want it to read... but if you CANT read or write, then you need some reason in there why you weren't attending the city sponsered education.

[Sayana]

So who pays for the education? Are there taxes too? Is it mostly the wealthy that pay the taxes? Or should I be aware of taxes/tarrifs for trading. Is there such thing as property tax? Or are all these expenses lumped under the "seasonal expenses" category?

I should probably back off and not go into so much detail. But it just surprises me that there are no formal countries/kingdoms yet there is free education.

[Gossamer]

As you should know, most cities are ran by singular families that are incredibly rich (Riverfall, Kenash, Lhavit, Avanthal etc) or organizations (Syliras, Ravok, Zeltiva) and those folks pay for the system. How do they get their coin? It depends on the city and the government set up there. It is as individualized as the city. The key point however is that it is paid for and free to the children.

I understand INDIVIDUAL views of how the game should be ran vary from person to person, but most of the system of how Mizahar has been set up has been in place for years whether it is written up or not.

[Gossamer]

I'm actually surprised that you acknowledge the game is ran on a sort of modified city-state system and yet if you look at the city states in the history of our own world... you fail to acknowledge that those citizens were some of the most educated as well.

Far more, I would hazard to guess, than most 'kingdoms' you seem to think are a prerequisite for free education.