[Peer Review][Skill] Law

(This is a thread from Mizahar's fantasy role playing forum. Why don't you register today? This message is not shown when you are logged in. Come roleplay with us, it's fun!)

This is the Archives forum for Peer Review.

Moderator: Scribes

[Peer Review][Skill] Law

Postby Marina Agamand on December 2nd, 2014, 6:11 pm



Lore Workshop Thread

Introduction

A law is a normative measure, made and enforced with the intention to control behavior in a group, and to distribute privileges and obligations among the members of that group. A more broad term for laws are norms, which can be both formal and informal, and exist in every group of sapient beings. Families, workplaces, cities, all exist and function because there are norms that mandate them to exist and function the way they do. While leaders of smaller communities can get by on personal charisma, a large community without a legal system cannot be governed effectively, if at all.

People who break the norms imposed on them will always face a sanction - some form of negative consequence, official or otherwise. Essentially, every normative system builds on people's fear of backlash, both from peers and superiors. Lawyers are those whose task is applying norms, as opposed to politicians who work to create them. Their course of work consists of three steps: identifying a juridical problem, identifying the norms that govern this particular problem, and finally, plotting a path to the problem's solution.

The main purpose of law is to create predictability. Statecraft requires the cooperation of many individuals. The benefits of such cooperation are often indirect and long-term. From the individual's perspective, it is much more tempting to choose actions that give direct, short-term benefits instead. From a sovereign's perspective, punishing such behavior is a way of compelling individuals to cooperate. When such arguably unnatural cooperation is achieved, the sovereign can command the group as if it were one creature - one vastly more powerful than the sum of its parts. Law is the instrument a sovereign uses to achieve this.

Law in its pure form is not a widespread practise in modern Mizahar. The two pre-Valterrian empires were the two largest organisations known in Mizahar, spanning half a continent each, and they both needed very advanced legal apparatuses to hold their vast and varied populations together. After the empires' disintegration, the need for such systems lessened, but is gradually returning as Mizahar's population restores. Those who take early initiative to master law would be fully capable to seize the reins of the reviving Mizaharan civilisations.


Justice System

There are several significant factors that make up a robust judicial system. The higher the degree to which a society meets these criteria, the more influence legal methods and their practitioners will have there.

Centralisation is the degree of concentration the sources of law have in a society. "Design by committee" will reduce the effectiveness of a legal system dramatically. Ideally, there is only one normative unit. Fractured systems will struggle when norms from different sources of the same status overlap on one issue. Division of power also decreases the overall ability to enforce the law. For example, the clan leaders of Sultros have normative powers over their clan members, but will meet difficulties when trying to enforce these norms against their members who live in another citadel, even though they still apply there. On the other hand, the Voice in Ravok has indisputable authority to set norms, and the lawyer applying them will have all of Ebonstryfe behind him.

Codification is the degree of precision with which the contents of norms are decided and disseminated. A lawyer's work will be considerably hindered if he cannot determine what the norms actually say, either because there are no clear sources (customs), or if there are many contradictory sources (decentralised authority). The degree of codification directly depends on how well norms are documented in a society, and how clear the hierarchy of the norm-setters is. For example, in Zeltiva, you can easily find regulations in written form, with indication of what office issued them. In Endrykas, you could ask five different authority figures about the same norm and get five different answers.

Meritocracy is the degree to which the appointment of lawyers is based on their skill, as opposed to subjective factors. Although their leaders like to believe otherwise, most cities fall low on this scale. It's very common to obtain executive positions through nepotism and favoritism, as well as - more deceivingly - virtues other than legal merit. For example, a person who becomes a Shinya in Lhavit will receive executive power. While the person may have proven to be a skilled magician and martial artist, these things say nothing about his proficiency with juridical methods. On the other hand, a knight in Syliras must display a degree of legal knowledge and sound judgement over the years before being appointed to an executive position.

Transparency is the degree of insight people have into the process of decision-making in a society. This is vital to subjects' faith in a justice system. When there's no indication about how, why and by whom decisions are made, the law will appear to strike like lightning - inexplicably and unpredictably. Opaque systems are highly prone to corruption: when decision-makers cannot be held accountable for their exercise of power, the proper practice of law will often come second to unseen political forces. For example, the conspiratory information-gathering of the Alvadan government will cause mistrust, regardless of how noble the leaders' intentions may be. On the other hand, the councilmen of Riverfall are encouraged to scrutinise each other, increasing their accountability, and thus the subjects' faith in them.


Sources of Law

Norms need to come from somewhere. A lawyer needs to know what to base his decisions on, and must know how to identify legitimate sources of law - that is, those sources of law that the group as a whole would identify as legitimate. To the extent the sources exist in a group, they come as follows, in a declining order of importance:

Divine Mandate: Societies governed by gods will look to said gods for guidance. Any statement made by the god and directed at the society as a whole can be considered divine mandate. Such a mandate is the strongest argument a lawyer could possibly possess.

Law: A law is a type of norm imposed by any group or individual that holds legislative power in a society. Kings, supreme councils and high-ranking public officials are examples of such entities. Laws exist in any sapient society and are the most common source of material for lawyers to work with. Legislators often have considerable resources at their disposal that they can use to punish lawbreakers, which makes laws a powerful support to rest on. Effort is usually made to render the subjects aware of laws by distributing them in verbal and, where possible, written form. As a political move, a sovereign may sometimes obfuscate the law to create a sense of fear and uncertainty in its subjects.

Precedent: When the legislature does not cover the subject at hand, a lawyer must use legal precedent. Leaning on the resolutions of similar cases from the past lends consistency, which is seen as important in many normative systems. In cultures that don't practise writing things down, precedent may take the form of stories passed down from previous generations; more difficult to find, but not impossible if the lawyer knows who to ask. Precedent is legal custom, and as such will generally take priority over other forms of custom, which is described below.

Custom: Customs are traditions and other patterns of behavior that are accepted as normal and desirable within a group. In many legal contexts, someone who has acted according to custom will receive much better treatment than someone who hasn't. Customs are generally used to fill any logical gaps that legislative norms may have. Custom is also extensively used as base when drafting contracts, and is normative (and often binding) within trade law in general. The justice systems of illiterate cultures are often reliant on custom.

Fundamental Principles: When there is nothing else to go on, a lawyer may appeal to the basic moral foundations of his society to determine the correct course of action, or as an argument against his opponents. Because of their breadth, fundamental principles seldom form a convincing argument on their own. For example, a fundamental principle which states that "stealing is bad" will not hold up in a debate against a custom which states that "stealing to feed yourself in a time of desperation is acceptable", or a law which states that "stealing back what was stolen from you is permitted". Lawyers who rely on fundamental principles will find themselves fighting an uphill battle, unless their opponent is just as unskilled. More adept practitioners, however, may use them to combat the exploitation of loopholes in the law.


Interpretation of Law

Interpretation by Letter: Semantic interpretation of the law minimizes ambiguity and lends itself well to strict enforcement. It is a very effective way to shove the sovereign's will down people's throats, as it leaves no room for protest. However, it regularly leads to bizarre outcomes and is frowned upon by the kinder jurisdictions. It is also the easiest to apply in practise, which makes it a favorite of novice lawyers.

Interpretation by Purpose: A good lawyer will generally attempt to deduct the creator's intent behind a norm when applying it. For example, a law that states "you shall not kill" is probably intended to be applied differently to a serial murderer than to someone who killed in self-defense. This method, also called teleological interpretation, requires considerable effort to apply for several reasons. First, the lawyer needs to actually know said purpose, which involves a lot of research in some cases. Once it's clear what goal the lawmaker wanted to achieve with a norm, the lawyer has to align his arguments and decisions with that goal. Under most circumstances, this leads to a more reasonable outcome than other interpretation methods. Public executives are particularly valued for this ability.

Interpretation by Precedent: Skilled lawyers can use precedent not only as a source of law, but also as an instrument to interpret other sources. As stated above, anything that lends consistency to the application of law is a good thing. Analysing the line of thought of his great predecessors may also allow a lawyer to solve problems that he would not be able to solve on his own. Custom can also be used to interpret other sources of law, but such an argument would carry less weight.


Disciplines of Law

Law can be divided into many disciplines, depending on which relationships it regulates. The two primary groups of disciplines are public law and private law, each being subdivided into finer categories. A lawyer should specialise in one of the two fields, since mastering them both is only an option for the most patient individuals of races with very long life spans. The importance of each discipline varies from society to society. A city that relies on trade for survival will have nuanced private law, whereas an isolated city with a strict caste system would need a strong public sector. Of course, the importance of law as a whole also varies greatly between regions. A lawyer will have considerably more traction in Syliras than in Sunberth.

Public Law regulates the relations between the individual and the sovereign. In societies with no identifiable sovereign, it regulates relations between the individual and the community as a whole. Judges, prosecutors, and defense attorneys are the lawyers most commonly associated with the public sector. In fact, most executive positions are occupied by lawyers. They are the officials who grant citizenships and trade privileges, administrate tax collection and advise politicians and other leaders, among other tasks. These lawyers often hold a lot of influence, both within the system and over individual people, but are also closely monitored for corruption and disloyalty, since many important functions of the state rest on their shoulders.

Private Law, also know as civil law, regulates the relations between the individual and other individuals. In modern Mizahar, the only notable discipline in this category is trade law. Private lawyers draft and negotiate contracts, plan business ventures and expansions, find opportunities for establishing trade in otherwise restricted regions, and help their clients avoid unnecessary taxation, among many other things. These lawyers do possess some knowledge of public regulations, but carry little social responsibility and usually stay out of the torchlights, being interested mainly in money. They, like most non-lawyers, prefer to settle disputes outside of court and are adept arbitrators.


Related Skills

Main Skills

Law is not a standalone skill. Just as leadership skills alone don't make a leader, knowledge of law alone doesn't make a lawyer. In order to be successful, a practitioner of law must rely on many abilities other than pure legal theory. The more of these abilities he masters, the easier he will be able to use the rules, as well as bend them to his liking.

Rhetoric is essential to anyone who wishes to practise law, due to the need to communicate large volumes of complex information in a clear and succinct manner. A lawyer who is not proficient in the use of language will find that his knowledge is helplessly trapped inside his own head. Generally, one will need to have proportional skill in both law and rhetoric - an expert lawyer needs expert rhetoric to properly articulate his ideas.

Observation is nearly as important. Solving legal problems often requires scrupulous analysis, as well as the ability to keep track of a mind-boggling array of details and variables. An unobservant lawyer will make fatal mistakes regularly, and his work will not yield good results in practice, no matter how well he grasps the theory of law.

Planning - where observation is the skill to spot details, planning is the skill to organise them. Especially at higher levels, a lawyer must be able to map out not only the numerous facts of a case, but also the countless possible solutions and outcomes. Only when he has sorted the cards he has on hand will he be able to decide what cards are the best to play.

Negotiation is the everyday tool of a lawyer. After all, his work will almost always require him to promote subjective interests - those of his clients, his allies, or his own. Negotiating agreements and mediating disputes are some of the most common tasks a lawyer faces. Furthermore, only a skilled negotiator will be able to use his knowledge of law as actual leverage when trying to improve or damage someone's position in the eyes of the powers that be.

Persuasion abilities are valuable in any situation that requres personal contact. They are especially important when dealing with people who aren't juridically schooled, since laymen often find it difficult to deal with the dry and pedantic nature of pure law. A lawyer's persuasion techniques will usually revolve around streamlining their arguments without taking the substance out of them - after all, it's impossible to convince someone of something they don't even understand.

Intimidation may be used to get needed information from those who don't respond to a gentler approach. More notably, a lawyer may use his status and knowledge to intimidate those of lesser standing into doing his bidding. The looming threat of law enforcement showing at your door because there's some obscure mistake in your papers, or some other such nonsense, is usually enough to sent the weak-willed scurrying. The stronger-willed may need a more detailed explanation of how exactly they're going to be brutalized by the system for not doing as the lawyer wants.

Politics and law are two sides of the same coin, and in Mizahar, political and judicial duties are often merged into one seat. For a public official, keeping track of the political winds is essential, even if only to ensure his survival on the post. While it's quite common to reach a position of political influence through charisma and social finesse, a politician needs to know how to juridically evaluate the norms he sets, or at least have an advisor who can do so, in order to effectively govern.

Philosophy is useful for a public official, but is a double-edged sword. When emperor Kovinus said, "a good judge is better than good law", he was drawing attention to the fact that people's adherence to the norms of society depended less on the norms themselves, and more on how they are applied and enforced. A lawyer that possesses philosophical thought is more capable of taking complex moral standpoints, as well as reasoning how a policy should be applied to achieve fairness and justice. A philosopher of law has many opportunities to influence the norms of his society, but his political peers may not appreciate the competition.

Anthropology is vital for diplomats and any other lawyers that work with more than one legal system. Since Mizahar is a divided world with no overarching moral narrative, norms are often unique to their locale, and legal knowledge translates very poorly between cultures. Differences can range from elusive nuances to fundamental values that are completely alien. Therefore, a lawyer will not be able to practise his trade abroad with any degree of proficiency if he has no insight into the methods of anthropological study.

Auxiliary Skills

To a lawyer, these skills are just as useful as the ones above. The major difference between main and auxiliary skills is that the main skills are inseparable from the practise of law, whereas tasks involving auxiliary skills can be left to someone else.

Intelligence is needed when the lawyer does not have the information he needs to solve a problem. A good lawyer will not try putting the puzzle together before he has all of the pieces on hand, since missing variables often makes it impossible to accurately determine the legal situation.

Investigation of norms makes up a large part of a lawyer's work when he's just starting out, or moves to a different region.

Interrogation is a more direct way of obtaining information. Usually, the lawyer can learn everything he needs to know simply by seating the person of interest across the table and asking the right questions. Subjects unwilling to disclose the truth might require more elaborate methods.

Subterfuge is a mighty weapon in the hands of a lawyer and his associates. Like meat grinders, many laws are designed to produce a fixed outcome depending on the input - the facts and circumstances of the case. The average upstanding citizen would be surprised by the extent to which these "facts" can be manipulated.

Organisation is useful when solving a problem requires the lawyer to sift through an unusually large amount of information, especially when it comes in written form. A secretary is usually employed for this.

Writing can be handy when drafting documents, although this can usually left to a scribe. A lawyer can also learn Calligraphy to add an element of luxury and prestige to his work.


Law by Region

The following section will briefly disambiguate the legal practices of each city.

Syliras: With its heavy and strictly enforced regulations, Syliras is a city where lawyers are highly respected. Criminal and civil law are clearly separated. Which actions constitute a criminal offence are clearly documented, and anyone wishing to eventually become part of the Council of Three needs to study these documents thoroughly, as well as prove to be of sound judgement over many years of service as a knight. Besides the Council, which deals exclusively in criminal cases, there are several smaller legal offices, appointed by the Grand Master, where people can turn with matters of civil law. In contrast to its public counterpart, Syliras civil regulations are unwritten and vague. Strong emphasis is placed on the judge's moral assessment. Acting in good faith and with honor will decide most disputes in one's favor.

Sahova: Sahovan legal policies are designed to be hands-off to allow the wizards to practice their trade unhindered. Most instances that would require a lawyer are either automated, or left to the personal judgement of the Archwizard or whomever else has the authority on the particular matter.

Zeltiva: Carrying a spark of pre-Valterrian academic culture, Zeltiva may have the most formalised legal system in Mizahar. It has three courts - one dealing with public matters, one for civil matters and a special "Marine and Commerce" court. Laws are many and detailed in each of the three sectors, with a wealth of precedent and legal commentary documented. Becoming a legitimate lawyer in Zeltiva is a daunting task that can require up to ten years of education, and only those who receive a Seal of Legitimacy from the government may staff the courts as judges, with lesser lawyers working as assistants. The court for Marine and Commerce is an unique institution; among other tasks, it keeps track of all the ships in the navy, ensuring that they are built, maintained, and staffed in accordance with Zeltiva's high standards. The work process involves a lot of number-crunching and paper-sifting, making sure that all parameters are up to par, as well as issuing and revoking sailing permissions to qualified seamen such as captains and navigators, also based on whether they meet certain criteria of skill and discipline.

Nyka: Nyka is ruled almost exclusively by customary law, and an unusually callous one at that. The city's lawyers - the Nykan monks - gradually learn the unwritten and often counterintuitive norms of the city during their daily lives, usually the hard way. Unlike many other societies, sectors are not divided into public and civil, but rather into four bundles of distinct privileges and types of administrative authority, each held by their own monastic order. Meeting a seasoned and intellectual monk who is willing to give accurate guidance on Nykan customs is a major advantage, both to citizens and visitors, and would earn the monk many favors.

Ravok: All public norms take form of documented divine mandate - mainly from the Voice, but occasionally from the Druvin and Rhysol himself. Brief in wording but broad in purpose, they are applied and enforced by the Black Sun and Ebonstryfe respectively. A public official would invariably belong to one of these two organisations. Besides pure juridical methods, he would also learn to twist the law against the individual with a degree cynicism not seen anywhere else, all in order to weed out the enemies of Rhysol. Private matters are not institutionalised and are ran completely by custom between the five families. Some family members specialise in selling guidance of these customs to anyone who hopes to do business in the city.

Avanthal: The law of Avanthal has two sectors: intra-hold and inter-hold, with each hold having separate legal offices for each sector, appointed by the Pavintu Janta. Intra-hold law deals with all crime committed by the hold members, even when the victim is from another hold. It also contains norms and sanctions against those not fulfilling their duties towards the hold. Intra-hold norms are usually written on large tablets, which are kept in special rooms and treated with a degree of ritualism. Inter-hold law deals with trade between holds, as well as each hold's conformation to its craft. Inter-hold lawyers keep track that the correct amounts of goods flow in the correct directions, as well as represent their hold in disputes; sources of law are mainly precedent and Morwen's mandate. The Icewatch is a separate judicial entity where all executive and representative power is held by Morwen herself.

Sultros: The Isurian legal system is one of the most difficult in Mizahar, for several reasons. While the Council of Five and the king legislate in reasonable amounts, each clan has various normative offices that regulate the professional standards of the clan's members very finely. The lord of each clan and his delegates project executive power along three routes: within the territory of his citadel, no matter who's on it, and over the members and property of his clan, no matter where they may be. These things are seldom a problem by themselves; the problem is the manner by which they intersect. In older times, when the clans seldom intermingled with each other, it was easy to determine what norm to apply to whom. Now that clan members move around more frequently, the legal web around them can get tangled into knots of mind-bending complexity. If a member of the Coglias clan broke an item belonging to a member of the Terras clan, and it happened on Pitrius territory, which clan's norms take priority?

Wind Reach: All executive power is held by the Valintar. Most of the written law details and privileges and responsibilities of each caste. Common legal problems include the transfer of persons from one caste to another, and testament drafting to limit cross-caste inheritance.

Lhavit: More so than other cities, Lhavit concerns itself with legal security. Public law is harsh on violence but relatively lenient on other matters, as are the Shinya in its application. The Shinya hold a lot of executive power, but are generally not juridically schooled. The private sector relies heavily on arbitration, and private lawyers are skilled negotiators. The main reason is that while it's possible to take a private dispute to a Shinya for official resolution, the reputation of the losing part will be considerably stained by this, leading to social repercussions not seen in other cities. Therefore, private lawyers are valued for their ability to help settle such matters away from the public eye.

Alvadas: The intricacy of Alvadan law lies in its policies on confidentiality and the flow of information within the government and its institutions. A lot of the juridical work involves keeping track of who is allowed to know what - the confidentiality norms, considering their complexity, are surprisingly poorly documented. Legal analysis may sometimes be needed in determining which of the arms of the Womiyu have authority over a criminal case. Private law is a blend of trade customs of Syliras and Riverfall; most legal discussions deal which city's custom should be applied in which case.

Kalinor: Kalinor is run by feudal custom. Legal questions mostly involve the rights to children, captured surrogates and inheritance. The Aconitum has additional, stricter, internal norms that don't apply outside of the organisation. Common problems there are the distribution of representative privileges - who is allowed to trade with the visiting merchants, and what goods.

Taloba: From an outsider's viewpoint, Taloba would appear to be loosely regulated, but this is not the case. The city's politically instituted laws are indeed rather sparse, including Myri's mandate and edicts by her delegates. The bulk of the norms, however, are customs that revolve around the correct way to perform various rituals and traditions, of which there are very, very many. The puritanism is especially prominent in religious and military matters, where adherence to custom is seen as paramount to the city's survival.

Zinrah: All setting and application of norms is done by the Queen. Because the society is small and despotic, the Queen's caprice leaves little room, or need, for juridical methods.

Black Rock: The norms of Black Rock are hands-off and enforced by the Omens at their own discretion, without any kind of legal process. A lawyer's ability to reason may be needed to help conduct trade and mediate between the several racial groups that sometimes come into conflict with each other.

Endrykas: While everyone knows the Seven Laws, their breadth and vagueness makes them difficult to apply consistently. Ankals who are concerned with justice in their clan will sometimes employ skilled advisors to interpret the Laws using a methodical and structured approach, as apposed to purely intuitive assessment, which is the only tool of lay judges. Drawing the lines for what constitutes "abusing a strider" or "maliciously altering the Web" are examples of the more important tasks for Drykas lawyers, along with the application of clan-specific norms.

Riverfall: Most legal disputes are settled in the Arena, which has a point system. The debate around the criteria by which the points are awarded is possibly the most influential juridical forum in Riverfall. Besides legal analysis, the lawyer would also need to study (and practice) the different martial disciplines that may come to be used in the Arena, in order to form an opinion on which techniques should award points and which should not. A different type of question that regularly arises is whether a wrongdoing has been committed in the first place, because if not, no fight should take place.

Kenash: Kenashian law is defined by the subtle tug-of-war between the Dynasties. Public law is tied to the Magistrate, so there's no such thing as a full-time public official in Kenash. Every season, as a new Magistrate is rotated in, the norms change, as do the people who apply them. Lawyers in the cabinet of each Magistrate need to be biased enough to put their Dynasty at an advantage, but not biased enough to anger the other houses, which is a very thin line to walk. Private law consists mostly of contract-drafting between the houses on various commercial transactions. The culture of private law has become increasingly paranoid over the years, so the contracts are turning out to be absurdly long and detailed, as everyone attempts to guard themselves against whoever may take unfair advantage of them.

Mura: Due to their uniquely harmonious society, the Konti do not generally use juridical methods. Their heightened empathy and intuition eliminates many problems such methods would normally be needed to solve. An exception is the handling of foreign trade. Many of the Mothers and their delegates see the benefit of analysing foreign trade customs and tailoring their interactions with visiting merchants accordingly.


Progression

Novice (1-25)
A novice lawyer has grasped the basics of legal analysis and knows the steps he needs to take when looking for answers. He can evaluate the legitimacy of a legal source and apply the various methods of interpretation to it. He can effectively work with issues for which the norms provide clear guidelines. However, he is easily confused by vague policies and situations with multiple problematic variables. It is still difficult for him to carry an independent juridical reasoning, and to determine how different parts of a normative system work together. Being a dabbler in law is generally not enough for qualified work, so a novice should either continue studying or become an assistant to a more skilled lawyer.

Competent (26-50)
A competent lawyer understands not only the rules, but also their underlying purposes. He can see how the different aspects of his discipline intertwine, and can solve problems that contain many different juridical questions. He can hold his own in a legal debate by providing well-structured arguments that are rooted in a source of law as well as his own deductions. He can quickly filter out irrelevant information and determine what sorts of evidence will be most effective in backing his claims. With enough time and good information sources, he can find solutions to most kinds of legal issues. Competent lawyers are eagerly employed by a wide variety of clients, such as public institutions for mid-level administration and merchants to help plan business ventures.

Expert (51-75)
An expert lawyer is highly prized in any civilised society because of his nuanced understanding of its inner workings. With minimal preparation, he can identify and solve nearly any legal issue. He can easily find more than one solution to most problems, discover opportunities that no one else sees and effectively exploit the weaknesses of any normative system. He can construct advanced arguments to defend or indict any person, organisation or course of action in a very convincing manner. At this level, a lawyer has gained intuitive understanding of how norms affect people's behaviour, to the point that he can plan and predict the practical effects of various regulations. Law experts are highly sought after by wise leaders for this reason, and can find themselves in key societal positions with relatively little effort.

Master (76-100)
In post-Valterrian Mizahar, there is only a handful of master lawyers, and each of them has the potential to obtain considerable influence. To further his purposes, he can twist any normative system in ways that defy common sense. He can find sin in a saint and get Rhysol acquitted in court. Having long observed the practical effects of various policies, he has gained keen insight into the sapient mind and how it can be controlled. He can devise rules that would make any organisation run like a machine. While a master lawyer can easily become a politician, his natural choice is to be the shadow behind one. Using his knowledge of law as well as the many related skills he has accumulated, he wields the long arm of the government as if it were his own. He intimately knows each of the threads that make up the fabric of civilised society, and is rivalled by few in his ability to force much more powerful entities to act in his interest.


(OOC Note: The level of skill only determines a character's ability of juridical reasoning. Laws, pieces of precedent, customs and other locale-specific components of the craft need to be acquired as lore.)


Last edited by Marina Agamand on September 24th, 2016, 10:54 am, edited 5 times in total.
User avatar
Marina Agamand
Unabashedly Disastrous
 
Posts: 65
Words: 93397
Joined roleplay: August 22nd, 2013, 7:52 pm
Race: Ghost
Character sheet

[Peer Review][Skill] Law

Postby Eleret on December 7th, 2014, 12:51 am

My first thought when I saw your draft: This is a long writeup -- but it ought to be! I really appreciate the time you spent on definitions here, which are a very, very necessary thing. For the most part, I find the article to be laid out clearly and easy to follow. Given that law is not in any way my field of expertise, that's a very positive thing!

But I do have some revisions to suggest, as well. I'm going to forgo grammatical edits in this review, because I've got a lot of other comments to make.

First, though, I'm going to drop in some comments on related skills: I recommend adding Persuasion, Investigation, and Planning. Probably as major skills. Also, I would disagree with you, that lawyers do benefit quite a bit from a sense of politics. They should be informed on what is politically appropriate, and knowing the system also leads to knowing how to manipulate the system to get the outcome they 'want' from a juridical or personal perspective. Bear in mind that many systems will run on personal connections and favors at least as much as any official body of law. And finally, I’d think a lawyer should have a decent level of politics if they’re to take on any high-profile or high-consequence cases… and expect them to come out well, anyway.

The two pre-Valterrian empires were the two largest organisations that spanned half a continent each, and they both needed very advanced legal apparatuses to hold their vast and varied populations together.

Small nitpick: the two largest organisations that spanned half a continent each suggests there have been other organizations spanning half-continents. I propose "...the two largest organizations known in Mizahar, spanning half a continent each, and they both..."

After their disintegration, there was little left to govern. The remaining groups were small and scattered, and did not require any elaborate laws to function, since they were already held together by the necessity to survive. This state of affairs has largely prevailed to this day... but not everywhere. The larger cities are finding that their populations are growing too large to be governed by a handful of leaders and a few soldiers for intimidation. Slowly, they understand the returning need for robust justice systems, which will form one of the keys to eventually restoring Mizahar to its former prosperity.


This feels like a blanket overgeneralization to me. For one, surviving ~175-200 years (as I estimate) underground may well have required adoption of and strict adherence to legal codes. In that sort of close confinement, absence of law would probably lead to everyone dying (and may well have, for groups which did not endure to become a modern domain).

Also, I think Syliras and Zeltiva have had their systems for a while, and the Akalak and the Drykas seem to have kept their systems largely intact through the centuries as well, so they aren’t exactly “just developing”. (Others also, but I speak of what I'm most familiar with.) I gather you mean to say that none of the above practice “pure law”… but I don’t know what that means, or what makes for a “robust” justice system, or how those differ from current practices.

Instead of giving a brief negative historical overview, I think this article would benefit more from a section on what makes a “robust justice system” and how it benefits a society. Right now, you indicate that ‘pure law’ promotes prosperity, but you don’t convey how or why. I do not come away from this with an understanding of why some norms are “better” than others at the level of societal prosperity.

In my opinion, the above point is one of the most important elements to add in.

The ones who take early initiative to master law may well be the ones to lay the groundwork for a future, unified, Mizaharan civilisation.

Small nitpick: I’m not sure this is appropriate for a skill writeup. This sounds like a character’s motivational drive, not a piece of lore.

A lawyer who can support his claims with such a mandate will seldom find an opponent who dares to argue...

Another nitpick: I would hesitate to assume people will ever not argue. It might be better to say something like “a lawyer who can support his claims with a divine mandate has the strongest argument he can possibly possess”.

Fundamental Law: Also called a constitution, fundamental law is intended to impose norms on the governing body, rather than on its subjects.

Given that neither modern polities (to my knowledge) nor the Empires (as you state) ever had less than absolute authority, I wonder if this aspect of law even has much of a foothold in Mizaharan juridical theory. You go on to say that fundamental systems are "exceedingly rare" in modern Mizahar -- rare, or nonexistent? If they’re rare, then at least one actually exists: provide examples, please! Otherwise, if there’s is no modern or historical precedent for fundamental law in Mizahar whatsoever, 'fundamental law' would be a purely theoretical subject IC -- and probably subject to a good deal of debate and criticism and even derision, the way new concepts are. I think it is important to emphasize that.

Effort is always made to render the subjects aware of laws by distributing them in verbal and written form.

Nitpick: This is another blanket statement. Always, for every law, under every circumstance, in every city which has a law system?

in cultures that don't practise writing things down, finding precedent can be next to impossible...

This is not necessarily true. Oral histories may retain much the same information, especially if the lawyer has some idea of who to ask. It CAN be impossible to find precedents, yes, but probably there is someone who is the go-to for that kind of thing for their social group, because a society without written records is still probably big on status and relationships and interactions. That's just part of being people. So all of these things -- relationship of families, standing, conflicts and outright feuds, patched-up disagreements and the how of solving them -- factor into that societal math. Besides, if any two groups had a conflict serious enough that the legal precedent matters, they probably also told the story about it a great many times, and in that way the precedent probably gets passed down.

Any deviation from custom is, by definition, abnormal and sometimes even criminal

Another nitpick: I feel like the mention of “criminal” here muddies the waters. A criminal, by definition, is one who breaks the law. But by the logic you just finished laying out, custom is tradition and fills in legislative gaps, it is not law. I think it would be better to rephrase this to something about ‘punishment’ or ‘condemned’ or otherwise drop the technical term “criminal”.

Maybe “any deviation from custom is considered ‘abnormal’, and may sometimes be condemned as strongly as a true breach of law’.

Fundamental Principles : When there is nothing else to go on, a lawyer may appeal to the basic moral foundations of his society to determine the correct course of action, or as an argument against his opponents. This is seldom very convincing, and lawyers who rely on fundamental principles too much are seen as unskilled.

I’m not clear how “fundamental principles” differ from “customs”. What is an example of a fundamental principle? And why are arguments based on these principles “unconvincing”? Speaking from a naïve perspective, if a principle is “fundamental”, I’d think it makes for an excellent argument! So please, do elaborate on this.

Literal Interpretation: When strict enforcement is a priority, literal interpretation leaves little to be desired . Generally only applicable to divine mandates and written law , it is a very effective way to shove the sovereign's will down people's throats, as it leaves no room for protest. However, it regularly leads to bizarre outcomes and is frowned upon by the kinder jurisdictions. It is also the easiest to apply in practise, which makes it a favourite of novice lawyers.

First, a small thing: I suggest rephrasing When strict enforcement is a priority, literal interpretation leaves little to be desired to something like Literal interpretation of laws minimizes ambiguity and lends itself well to strict enforcement. Literal interpretation can leave a lot to be desired, as you go on to convey in the rest of the section.

Second, I don't agree with Generally only applicable to divine mandates and written law... If a sovereign makes a verbal statement, and conveys it verbatim to his lawyers, and they enforce it literally, well, that is literal interpretation, is it not?

What you might do, instead, is conclude this paragraph with something along the lines of “Literal interpretations are only feasible when a norm with specific wording can be referenced, such as a divine mandate or written law.

Interpretation by Purpose: A good lawyer will generally attempt to deduct the creator's intent behind a norm when applying it. For example, a law that states "you shall not kill" is probably intended to be applied differently to a serial murderer than to someone who killed in self-defence. This method is more difficult to apply and carries an increased risk of errors on the lawyer's part , but often yields a more fair and expedient outcome.


Why is this method "more difficult to apply"? Elaborate on this, please.

Also, what constitutes an "error" in this context? An error in application? An error in interpretation? From whose perspective does an "error" occur?

Similarly, the outcome from this interpretation is more "expedient" than... what? And what makes an outcome 'expedient' in the first place? Is this expedient as in quick, or expedient as in practical/pragmatic/easy?

Interpretation by Precedent: Skilled lawyers can use precedent... Custom can also be used to interpret other sources of law, but such an argument would carry less weight.


The weight that custom carries, I think, is going to depend very strongly on culture. Societies with a strong common culture are going to give their social norms a lot of weight, even if those norms are not officially law. So this is another blanket statement that doesn't necessarily apply.

Also, this is the second instance where you've simply stated that "this argument is not as good". Good and bad, weighty and trivial, exist in the perceptions of the beholder. So they're going to vary with culture and context and training. I strongly suggest you avoid saying "this is a good source" and "that is a bad source". Instead, try to provide context illuminating the strengths and weaknesses of a particular norm or interpretation and when it should be applied. That will also assist players in making their own interpretations and portrayals of the skill.

Law can be divided into many disciplines, depending on what it regulates. The two primary groups of disciplines are public law and private law, each being subdivided into finer categories. A lawyer should specialise in one of the two fields, since mastering them both is only an option for the most patient individuals of races with above average life spans.


Small nitpick: Just say “very long life spans” here. When racial lifespans can run the gamut from 1 year to 450 years to eternal, “average” is a rather meaningless value.


Judges, prosecutors and defence attorneys are the lawyers most commonly associated with the public sector. In fact, most executive positions are occupied by lawyers. They are the officials who grant citizenships and trade privileges, administrate tax collection and advise politicians and other leaders, among other tasks.

Is this truly going to be the case in a medieval-esque society? I would expect at least some if not many executive/administrative/judicial positions to be held by politicians and/or the equivalent of nobles. They might be conferred as political appointments/rewards, not on merit, so the person in the seat may or may not be a ‘lawyer’. Unless you mean to define a lawyer, at least in part, as one who holds such a seat.

Also, are prosecutors and defense attorneys -- and judges, for that matter -- really all that common throughout Mizahar? I feel like this paragraph is more reflective of some modern RL societies than the varied cultures of Mizahar.

n modern Mizahar, the only notable disciplines in this category are trade law and family law. Private lawyers draft and negotiate contracts, help divide inheritance, plan business ventures and expansions, find opportunities for establishing trade in otherwise restricted regions, and help their clients avoid unnecessary taxation, among many other things.

Similarly, as this section stands, it sounds like it's supposed to be a universal system. But each society is bound to be different.

Overall, I think this article would benefit from some more explicit description of HOW to practice law in Mizahar. Right now, there are many very necessary definitions, but I feel like there’s little on practice. I would like to see a couple of paragraphs very briefly outlining the different law systems in Mizahar. Obviously, the meat of that belongs in city lore and not here, but I think it would be worthwhile to systematically highlight the systems and major differences. Syliras and Riverfall are very codified. Riverfall tries everything by combat. And so on.

For that matter, you might go one step further and instead of highlighting the city law systems, write a small paragraph specific to each city about what characters who practice law might be expected to do. That would give a lot of insight for players and graders on what law skill most applies to, how to utilize it, and when to award it.

The above paragraphs are, in my opinion, the other major takeaway for this review.

And that concludes my comments! You've definitely got a really good foundation here, I think the greatest lack is that it needs some more practical context to go with the theoretical.
User avatar
Eleret
Player
 
Posts: 314
Words: 179278
Joined roleplay: October 21st, 2012, 12:33 am
Location: Shipped to Syka
Race: Konti
Character sheet
Storyteller secrets
Plotnotes
Medals: 1
Donor (1)

[Peer Review][Skill] Law

Postby Traverse on January 6th, 2015, 5:01 pm

Image
Just a very small spelling error:

Their course of work consists of tree steps:


Other than that I found this article very informative, I though the progression write ups sounded great, and thought you covered a lot here.

I agree with Eleret that there is a lack of RL context to go with this article. You do mentioned more than once the differences between cities and what a lawyer has to work with depending on the situation, but I feel like there should be examples of current cities in Mizahar and the common types of law practices, and how they operate under ruling bodies or systems in that city, at least as a foundation for people looking to practice the skill, I feel like someone working to maintain master level status would potentially have the opportunity to change these systems in one way or another, but the way they go about that and operate would be very different in say Syliras vs. Taloba
User avatar
Traverse
Journey to your limits
 
Posts: 3291
Words: 1283282
Joined roleplay: December 18th, 2012, 4:16 pm
Location: RS of Falyndar, DS of Taloba
Race: Staff account
Office
Scrapbook
Medals: 7
Featured Contributor (1) Artist (1)
Trailblazer (1) Donor (1)
One Thousand Posts! (1) One Million Words! (1)
Extreme Scrapbooker (1)

[Peer Review][Skill] Law

Postby Marina Agamand on January 31st, 2015, 12:17 pm

Sorry for the long delay, I've been busy IRL. I've also had to do some deep diving into the existing city lore to be able to write city-specific information.

Eleret: Thank you for taking the time to write an in-depth review. I've expanded the article based on it.

I understand that the main flaw of the article is that it's missing a lot of practical information. I've been subconsciously avoiding that, because I haven't roleplayed in any of the cities enough to get a good feel for them. Now I wrote it anyway, taking certain artistic liberties. I'm not sure if that's what was needed - I'm ready to make further changes if necessary. Although, looking at its current size, I don't think this article tolerates a lot of further expansion.

Last edited by Marina Agamand on May 5th, 2015, 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Marina Agamand
Unabashedly Disastrous
 
Posts: 65
Words: 93397
Joined roleplay: August 22nd, 2013, 7:52 pm
Race: Ghost
Character sheet

[Peer Review][Skill] Law

Postby Orin Fenix on March 5th, 2015, 12:54 pm

So first of all I wanted you to know that I'm incredibly impressed with the write-up you did. I found it incredibly in-depth both about the theoretical foundations of law as well as the practical issue of practicing law in certain areas. I don't have a lot of notes for you and I may have missed some, but here are what I've got.

Small grammar nitpick: I believe the colon in the following sentence should properly be a semi-colon.
The court for Marine and Commerce is an unique institution: among other tasks, it keeps track of all the ships in the navy, ensuring that they are built, maintained and staffed in accordance with Zeltiva's high standards.


Overall I think my largest critique is one that has been already brought up. That is the issue of how law is actually practiced in Mizahar. You are right when you say that there's a lot of overlap between government administration and the laws. Also, I understand the difficulties in trying to create a law section for every city and region when that is properly something that belongs in the city lore page. However, I agree with the above assessment that perhaps you're trying to make law into too much of an umbrella term. From this article, it seemed like every time someone in a position of authority did anything it would be constituted as an act of law. Also, while this may be straying into the realm of theory which I am not well versed in at all, it seems to me that social conventions and norms that are commonly understood in a culture do not necessarily fall under the purview of law. Also, in instances where custom is breached and an individual is punished either officially or unofficially, again, I'm not sure whether that should be considered law. If someone is ostracized because they aren't conforming then that act isn't necessarily criminal in nature, as I understand it.

Also, while you're correct that most societies need for their laws to be well known and understood by the general populace, that is by no means the case. There are several instances I can think of where laws were intentionally kept opaque to the lower classes to help keep them subservient. I can also think of totalitarian regimes or periods of history where secret police were employed where laws were deliberately withheld.

In practice, no mortal society would combine verbal norms with literal interpretation. Memorising and disseminating verbal norms word for word, and passing them down in time is largely impossible with any kind of accuracy. What you're talking about is literal interpretations of decisions (the solution to a specific case) as opposed to norms (guidelines to base decisions on). Politicians set norms for lawyers to apply, and lawyers issue decisions to enforcers of the law.


Again, I have to disagree with you on this point. Oral traditions are well documented among many cultures and have been used to settle disputes. While I can think of several real life examples, I know for a fact that that there is at least one Mizahar example, the Chaktawe. All of their stories are used as both teaching and cautionary tales as well as used to help settle disputes. If we are accepting that rituals and customs are laws in certain cultures than we have to accept that verbal laws can be used as a valid point in an argument. Keep in mind that most of these cultures drill the tales into children starting from a very young age and they are not allowed to tell them until they are word perfect. Chaktawe Abalyas in training who mess up the telling of a story or do not have a word-perfect memory are actually barred from training and occasionally are driven from the tribe.

Speaking about your concern about size, maybe this article could be split up into two parts and perhaps should belong on two separate lore pages. One for the actual definition and the skill write up, and one for the laws as they apply to each city. I know that's a lot of work but it might help understanding if you split this article up into theoretical explanations of the law and the practicalities of practicing law in Mizahar. This would also help with one other question I had. While you did a great job explaining the intricacies of law as they apply to each city, each racial group also has certain laws that they follow that aren't necessarily reflected in the city write-ups. Sticking with the Chaktawe example from above, for instance, they have two authority figure, Abalyas, the storytellers who are always female and the Wayhali, the male clan leaders who are the final authority. These aren't addressed in your article at present and while I haven't gone through the race lore at large, I'm sure there are other instances of culturally specific laws as opposed to regionally specific ones.

I don't know if any of these comments helped, but I just wanted to say again how impressed I am with all of your hard work. If you have any questions about what I wrote or need help with this please let me know.
User avatar
Orin Fenix
Almost Iron But Actually Master Chef
 
Posts: 938
Words: 1186489
Joined roleplay: January 24th, 2015, 12:06 am
Location: Riverfall
Race: Human
Character sheet
Storyteller secrets
Scrapbook
Journal
Plotnotes
Medals: 3
Featured Character (1) Trailblazer (1)
Overlored (1)

[Peer Review][Skill] Law

Postby Marina Agamand on February 11th, 2016, 4:22 pm

My apologies for the very late reply. Orion, thank you for your insightful commentary. I agree that there need to be more information about individual races and cities, and that it should be written separately. The particularities of all the legal systems on Mizahar cannot be adequately covered in anything less than a book, and are not appropriate on add to this article.

From this article, it seemed like every time someone in a position of authority did anything it would be constituted as an act of law.

This is the case. Nearly everything everyone does on a daily basis is an act of law. Normal people are blissfully (and woefully) unaware of this, but a lawyer can't afford to be. Nearly every physical action has a legal component that can be faulted in various contexts. This is something that should be elaborated upon in the race- and city-specific articles, as talking about it general terms won't convey much information.

I completely agree with your other points. I've have changed the wording in article to reflect that.

I've also reviewed Eleret's comments a second time and made additional changes in light of them. Thank you again!

It's been a while since I've last looked over this article, and I may have missed to change something. More opinions are very welcome.
User avatar
Marina Agamand
Unabashedly Disastrous
 
Posts: 65
Words: 93397
Joined roleplay: August 22nd, 2013, 7:52 pm
Race: Ghost
Character sheet

[Peer Review][Skill] Law

Postby Aladari Coolwater on July 4th, 2016, 2:10 am

Image
Hello! I know it's been awhile since this article has been addressed, but I thought I would try to give it another push. Most of my revisions are either tiny grammar things, or rewording. I suppose that's a good thing, since it means the article was comprehensive and well-formatted. :D

I also must say, I very much enjoy the Law by Region portion, and I think you did an excellent job giving just the right amount of info on cities as to give a good idea of the practice style, and still leaving some creativity up to the mods and players.

Now, on to my notes.

Naturally, not all sources exist in every group, but to the extent they do, they come in the following declining order of importance:


I don't think there's technically anything wrong with this, but it is a somewhat confusing structure to me. You might try playing with this one to find a better wording.

stealing back what was stolen from you is allowed


"Allowed" sounds a little out of the professional tone for the piece. Permitted may be a better word.

Judges, prosecutors and defence attorneys

It is spelled defense, not defence.
Also, the Oxford Comma. I highly prefer it, but if you have something serious against it, I suppose it's not vital. A

and his work will not yield good practical results,


Should be “will not yield good, (comma) practical results”. Or you can remove either “good” or “practical”.

Planning - where observation is the skill to spot details, planning is the skill to organise them. Especially at higher levels, a lawyer must be able to map out not only the numerous facts of a case, but also the countless possible solutions and outcomes. Only when he has sorted the cards he has on hand will he be able to decide what cards are the best to play.


You may not be able to do this, but Planning is not currently on the list of skills. I've seen it added to a couple CS's, and rewarded in grades, so I'm sure it's fine to use, but with links to the skills, the Planning one goes nowhere. How would we go about adding a Planning stub?

those of his clients, his allies or his own


Oxford again.

when trying to improve or worsen someone's position in the eyes of the powers that be


Worsen is a strange word, and again I feel breaks the very professional tone of the piece. How about “damage” or even “decline”?

lawyer that possesses philosophical thought is more capable of making complex moral standpoints,


I don't think you make standpoints. You either take a standpoint or make a point.

Which actions constitute a criminal offence is clearly documented,


Plurality conflict. Change to action (singular), or change to are instead of is to make it plural.

or left to the personal judgement of the Archwizard or whoever else has the authority on the particular matter.


Whomever. Whom is used when it follows a preposition, in this case, “left to” is the preposition.

built, maintained and staffed


Oxford.

If he has nothing better to do, a lawyer can learn Calligraphy to add an element of luxury and prestige to his work.


I don't think the "if he has nothing better to do" is necessary, and sounds a bit degrading, as though Calligraphy is a sign of a rarely-employed lawyer.

number crunching and paper-sifting

Hyphenate either both or neither, here. The inconsistency is not good.

Brief in wording but broad in purpose, they are applied and enforced the Black Sun and Ebonstryfe respectively.


Just missing a word here. "Applied and enforced by the Black Sun and Ebonstryfe"

Due to their uniquely harmonious society, the konti do not generally use juridical methods.

"Konti" should be capitalized.
"The sea always filled her with longing, though for what she was never sure."
- Cornelia Funke
User avatar
Aladari Coolwater
Rock the boat.
 
Posts: 477
Words: 267621
Joined roleplay: March 8th, 2016, 3:26 am
Location: Syliras
Race: Human, Vantha
Character sheet
Storyteller secrets
Scrapbook
Plotnotes
Medals: 3
Overlored (1) Donor (1)
Sunberth Seasonal Challenge (1)

[Peer Review][Skill] Law

Postby Marina Agamand on July 26th, 2016, 12:16 pm

Hello and thank you for your review, Aladari. I've made changes according to all of your comments. I'm not a native English speaker so having my texts proofread like this is very helpful.

I'll request a Planning stub once this gets to Founder Review.
User avatar
Marina Agamand
Unabashedly Disastrous
 
Posts: 65
Words: 93397
Joined roleplay: August 22nd, 2013, 7:52 pm
Race: Ghost
Character sheet

[Peer Review][Skill] Law

Postby Ferrin Al'Mandrikan on September 22nd, 2016, 1:58 pm

Kenashian law is defined by the subtle tug-of-war between the families. Public law is tied to the Magistrate, so there's no such thing as a full-time public official in Kenash.


I strongly advise, when your're talking about Kenash and the families, you must let the audience know that their are a particular family that run Kenash. They're known as "Dynasties" just to inform, this is vital information for the audience to know. Otherwise, you can confuse the readers.

Also: I believe that you should include the skill "Intimidation"- through court meetings and interrogations this would help lawyers and judges in a way of which to gain information, by certain means.

A Little Side Note: Don't forget to include the points in the skill progression. I.e 1-25: Novice
26-50- Competent
51-75- Expert
76-100- Master
This is just a reminder for others so that they know how many points is what. :)

Credits go to Fire!
Image

"With a heart of steel, I raise my blade in combat. The only thoughts I have in my mind is whether I'd return home to my family. I am a soldier, and will fight for love and peace. That is the way of being a Syliran Knight"-Ferrin.



Sig :
Dimensions Changed to: 300x150 pixels.


Credits to Prophet for making this amazing Sig. He does a great job!
I'm Open To Guest Storytelling Let Me Know, and I'll See What I Can Do!
|| Syliras Lore * Syliras * Plotnotes * My Scrap *Ferrins CS ||
User avatar
Ferrin Al'Mandrikan
Loving Family Man - Protective Squire
 
Posts: 1072
Words: 705389
Joined roleplay: July 16th, 2015, 1:02 am
Location: Currently in: Sylrias
Race: Human
Character sheet
Storyteller secrets
Scrapbook
Journal
Plotnotes
Medals: 2
Artist (1) One Thousand Posts! (1)

[Peer Review][Skill] Law

Postby Attunement on September 24th, 2016, 10:26 am

This is ready for founder review.
User avatar
Attunement
Retired Staff
 
Posts: 23
Words: 2551
Joined roleplay: June 1st, 2016, 6:03 pm
Race: Staff account


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests