OOC Info OOC: Pride's Place

[Yisanareysin]

Will rules regarding slavery rules work? Will it still be "anyone except Eypharians (and maybe Dhani) unless they're criminals"? I'd like a rough idea, because if it's significantly different I probably have to modify Rey's backstory a bit.

[Kaleidoscope]

Yes, that's right. There will still be close ties to the Dhani, and although those ties might become strained at times, there won't be many Dhani slaves, unless they were a crim of course.
~Kal

[Sayana]

Brainstorming
Time to give this thread some juice

Below are questions, thoughts and ideas I've had about Ahnatep. Take them or leave them or pick them apart. Mostly this is meant to kindle renewed interest and motivation towards this beautiful city.

History
Where did the people hide in Ahnatep during the Valterrian?
When did they first start rebuilding their city (rather than scurrying around scavenging for food just to hide again)?
Who was the first great leader that united them to rebuild and uncover the ruins? What impact did they have? Is there a monument for them, or a certain building dedicated to them? (maybe the first real building uncovered)

Economy
How did they first get their water supply when hiding / coming out of hiding?
Is it the same water supply that they use now, or have they improved it in some fashion? (aqueduct, irrigation, plumbing)
When were they able to start growing crops again, and what did they grow?
What is their agriculture / water supply like now?
What other goods do they produce, and what are so rare that they must import them?
Do they trade with other cities, and how? Ships may be easier to transport, but they require wood to build, which is in short supply in a desert.
Do they have trade relations with different cities/races? For example, the Akvatari might supply glamorous works of art (of different styles/mediums) for the upper class.
How does slavery integrate into the economy and what work do slaves most often do?

Culture
What is the general vision of what leads to success: hard work, the right parents/heritage, or a clash of both?
How might these conflicting visions be seen in the businesses, the organizations and the laws of the city?
If a slave can work or buy their way out of slavery, will they still be treated with respect as a non-eypharian?
What power do the wealthy upper class have compared to innovative businesses that began from the lower class? Are the differences explicit or subtly implied?
Do these values show up in their holidays or the historical figureheads they admire?

Magic/Religion
How does water reimancy play into society? What about Makutsi's raindancing?
Is magic considered "hard work" or a lazy means of accomplishing something? Is it restricted to upper class? Or are upper class opposed to it due to the dangers it presents?
Do the citizens worship gods? Or do they consider themselves equal, better, or not needing a god?

Architecture
Are most of the buildings new, renovated/unburied from the pre-valterrian buildings, or still half buried in the sands?
Would an Eypharian live in or admire a building that is half ruined and without a roof, just because it was pre-valterrian?
Have all the buildings been looted long ago? Are they missing gold and mosaic finery from thieves? Or do some maintain pieces of ancient artwork and wealth? If so, how did the citizens preserve these?
If someone wanted a new house, would they build a new one from sandstone in the surrounding area, or would they start by uncovering ancient buildings from the sand? Or does it depend? Who's allowed to do what?
Also, what happened to the other three great Eypharian cities? Have there ever been missions to uncover those ruins? (potential large plot/quest)


I'll stop for now, since I have to head off to a dance class. But I might be back with more questions (especially if this is helpful, rather than overwhelming). Some might be 'leading questions' but I'm certainly not trying to dictate anything.

Credit: Shimoje

[Sayana]

Continued...

Social Structure
Who are the leaders?
What groups/organizations have a large amount of power?
Who makes the laws and dolls out the laws?
Is political power granted by lineage or by ambition/social character? Or is some of it one kind, and some the other kind?
Are there different classes? Who makes up what class and can they change classes? Can slaves ever change into one of the non-slave classes?
Are there any people so poor that they live on the streets?
How do people show their status? Jewelry, homes, slaves, profession, clothes, social connections, mannerisms, level of education, facial make-up, spouse, political influence?


Military/Law Enforcement
Who is part of the military?
Who/what does the military fight against? Who/what does it primarily protect? If there wasn’t a military force, would other desert dwellers use the city’s water supply?
What are their typical weapons / tactics? Do they use horses? Chariots? Do they wear armor? Are their weapons iron and steel based or wooden based or bronze based? Is archery common or is there not enough wood for arrows? Do they ever use elephants? Are there elephants?
Are there any military tactics that have mimicked from pre-valterrian records but fail to meet the true potential? Like a single battle elephant that is mostly for show, but does very little, yet would intimidate any opposition of Ahnatep due to the way things are currently.
Who are the law enforcers?
How can you tell that they are the law enforcers?
Is crime on the streets a problem? Or are fraud, scandal and white collar crimes more common? Are there established lawyers? Or is crime resolved in a simpler way? Or is non-violent crime resolved with various negotiations and deals between families?


Slaves
What race(s) are the most common for slavery?
What type of work is commonly done?
Would a poor family still have a slave? How many slaves would middle class have? What about upper class?
What keeps the slaves from rising up or revolting against their masters?
Is magic ever used to keep slaves in their place? (hypnotism, reimancy, projection)
Have Grand Oaths ever be used on high up slaves?
Where do the slaves come from? Or are there enough of them to have their own children? Why would a slave ever want to raise their children in slavery? Or are they the result of rape?


History (again)
What were some of the defining pre-valterrian attributes of Eypharian life that current day Eypharians are trying to mimic?
Which of those aspects did they get completely wrong and are mimicking something that didn’t exist or they are going about it in the wrong way?
Which of those aspects are solely for the purpose of propaganda to solidify the standing of the current leader?
What information did they manage to save from the Valterrian? What has been corrupted? (through time or intention)
Do all Eypharians have a high regard for the past grandeur of the city? What might make some of them skeptical?
Does the city have an ‘old’ section and a ‘new’ section? How is that conveyed by people, shops, and status?
What kind of technology can the see examples of (eg depicted in old artwork) but cannot replicate?

Credit: Shimoje

[Kaleidoscope]

.
.

Seriously, this is one of the most helpful things in ages.

Now, I know these were perhaps not intended to all be answered, but as they are all very good questions I'm going to do just that.



History
Where did the people hide in Ahnatep during the Valterrian?
-In a combination of Dhani tunnels and cool cellars, which were connected in some places. Most if not all of these have collapsed now, and form a dangerous band around the outskirts of Ahnatep where animals lurk and people often fall into the pits that are left behind.
When did they first start rebuilding their city (rather than scurrying around scavenging for food just to hide again)?
-I am as of yet unsure of an exact date, but probably about 100 years after the Valterrian. 100 years gives enough time for occasional reconnaissance into the land left above, time for people to get comfortable with their new existence and then uncomfortable again, and time enough for the land to stabilise and become liveable again. They would probably have completely left the tunnels by the year 90 AV, with ten years spent building enough homes from the ruins.
Who was the first great leader that united them to rebuild and uncover the ruins? What impact did they have? Is there a monument for them, or a certain building dedicated to them? (maybe the first real building uncovered)
-The first real building to be uncovered was the Watchtower, seeing as it's a large monument of pretty great importance that I'm basing near the centre of the city. It would be a place the people would gravitate towards, and build around, even though they left the tunnels further to the west. The first great leader thing is a bit of a sticking point, but I've almost ironed out the cracks. I'll probably talk through that in a separate post, so watch out for that.

Economy
How did they first get their water supply when hiding / coming out of hiding?
Is it the same water supply that they use now, or have they improved it in some fashion? (aqueduct, irrigation, plumbing)
-All of the city's water comes from the river that runs roughly horizontally 3/4ers of the way down through the city. From the start, they simply got buckets and carried it to wherever they might need it. Now... well, it's virtually the same, and is a slaves job to carry water. That'll be covered in the bit about slaves below. So water is simply carried everywhere. Some people might have permanent buckets to collect the rain, if they're poor and can't afford a slave. And the people that live on and in the river obviously just get it straight from the source.
When were they able to start growing crops again, and what did they grow?
-If we say they were a fledgling city again in 100 AV, then they would need to get food otherwise they would starve. Agriculture would need to be a priority, and so I would say they would start the farms in about 110 AV, or earlier. As this city is basically trying to carbon-copy what came before it, they would have searched in the broken wreckage of the past and tried to cultivate what they find. Crops are something I need to do a little more research on, but definitely dates, definitely corn.
What is their agriculture / water supply like now?
-Pretty stable in terms of water (the river might get pretty low on occasion though, which is always cause for concern. Actually now that I'm thinking about it, I really don't want to follow the ancient Egypt theme (especially the Nile/Cairo dynamic) but I'm set on there being a river. Perhaps the level doesn't fluctuate too much? Agriculture is a difficult one, and they would have to import some things. But that would be a class thing, with the higher classes desiring different foodstuffs.
What other goods do they produce, and what are so rare that they must import them?
-Salt! Spices! Paper! We have a salt mine, a small glade of woodland and spice plants guarded by fierce witches of Caiyha, and some kind of paper-making industry. However, they import a lot of things, ranging from food, to metals and jewels (jewels especially), art, and slaves. They most especially import slaves.
Do they trade with other cities, and how? Ships may be easier to transport, but they require wood to build, which is in short supply in a desert.
-Yes, they do trade with other cities, but yes it is difficult. They would probably buy boats from other cities, or rely on other traders to pass through the port so they can load their cargo on and take it elsewhere. Trade with other desert cities does happen, but it would probably be infrequent due to the difficulties of travel in the desert. Also in an OOC sense, there are no other developed cities apart from Malrion, and that is still in the works. If another city gets developed, I would happily discuss with the ST a trade agreement. Until then, we assume trade is very infrequent with those places.
Do they have trade relations with different cities/races? For example, the Akvatari might supply glamorous works of art (of different styles/mediums) for the upper class.
-Yes, but I'll properly think about the full intricacies of trade once the actual city is down on the ground.
How does slavery integrate into the economy and what work do slaves most often do?
-Oh my, slaves do all sorts of things. Slavery is a very big part of the economy. Some slavers are quite revered, especially amongst the higher ups, for the help they give to the city. As mentioned above, slaves carry water. So, at any time, you would undoubtedly see slaves staggering along streets, sweating as they carry heavy buckets and cartons of water to and fro. Slaves are also used to do all the heavy, manual work. Things like carting around goods, moving stone for building work, cleaning the streets, the homes, the businesses. Some people might have an upper class of slave, and these might be more specialised to prepare a lady's toilette, keep a treasured animal fed and watered. Some might be tasked with looking after children, if the mother is particularly busy (although Eypharians are rightly proud of their children and this latter practice is not often used, unless the woman is some kind of business woman who really doesn't have the time).

Culture
What is the general vision of what leads to success: hard work, the right parents/heritage, or a clash of both?
-Ooh, a good question. Success- in life, in friendships, in business, is the driving factor of how leadership works in the city. So many Eypharians believe that success is available to anyone, even those in the lower classes. In a way, they are very entrepreneurial. Obviously, if someone is a regular human they wouldn't do as well as a four-armed Eypharian. If you're a four-armer, then you wouldn't do as well as someone with six arms, because of discrimination. But there is an underlying sense that anyone can achieve greatness if they work hard for it. But it just so happens that if you are born into a family with good connections and wealth, then you just might do better than someone who is born to a poor family.
How might these conflicting visions be seen in the businesses, the organizations and the laws of the city?
-Most businesses are as competitive and cutthroat as they come. If you, as a shop owner, can get one up on someone else by slandering them and undercutting them, then they will. If someone can cheat the system and get a little bit more money from their boss than they're supposed to, then they will. It's one of the reasons why I put fraud into the kiat system. However, most citizens simply try to to their best, in all things. Almost everyone thinks that competition leads to better products, and thus better living, so it goes unchecked. If that's what you meant...
If a slave can work or buy their way out of slavery, will they still be treated with respect as a non-eypharian?
-Almost all slaves are in it for life. After all, if you're a slave and you're good at what you do, why would your owner want to let you be free? However, although rare it could still happen. You wouldn't be treated with much respect, but it would all depend on what race you were and how much you told of your past.
What power do the wealthy upper class have compared to innovative businesses that began from the lower class? Are the differences explicit or subtly implied?
-The wealthy upper class have a kind of subtle power, yes. They have money from their own good businesses, such as slaving or mining or what-have-you. Some might be kind and helpful, and offer money to those that wish to build their own businesses. Some, like I already mentioned, would do anything in their power to cut that business out of the market. It's almost like a war going on- just not like the kind of war everyone hankers after.
Do these values show up in their holidays or the historical figureheads they admire?
-I haven't given much thought to holidays yet, but it's certainly worth considering once the city is actually open.

Magic/Religion
I haven't actually thought much about magic yet, so some of these questions will have to be answered at a later date I'm afraid!
How does water reimancy play into society? What about Makutsi's raindancing?
-Water is obviously a very important research to the Eypharians. Now, Makutsi will have a temple to her, although it might be small. I suspect I will go down the route of allowing magic into the city (more on that below), with water reimancy being a small aspect of it. I can see why it would be the first one to think about, but magic is dangerous at the end of the day, and anything that could damage their city is considered rather warily. (The citizens are incredibly house/city-proud. A large proportion of citizens are the type of people to scream and curse at those that leave litter or graffiti ).
Is magic considered "hard work" or a lazy means of accomplishing something? Is it restricted to upper class? Or are upper class opposed to it due to the dangers it presents?
-Currently, I'm not sure... Sorry!
Do the citizens worship gods? Or do they consider themselves equal, better, or not needing a god?
-Yes the citizens worship gods, although not in huge numbers (i.e. there isn't one particular deity that holds sway over them). A lot of religion is based on practices picked up whilst in the tunnels. Faith is pretty important when you're scared and hungry and on the verge of a fight constantly.

Architecture
Are most of the buildings new, renovated/unburied from the pre-valterrian buildings, or still half buried in the sands?
-Ooh, another good one. Every building in the city is built/renovated/reconstructed from the remains of the pre-Valterrian buildings. Every. Single. One.
Okay, not every single one. As they wanted to keep the original purpose of most buildings the same, they might have had to guess in some places and build a new building (in the style of an old one) where they needed to. There is also a faction in the city that desires 'newness' and so might purposefully build a building in an entirely new style. But that is very very rare.
Would an Eypharian live in or admire a building that is half ruined and without a roof, just because it was pre-valterrian?
-An Eypharian would live in and admire a building like that, and they would do everything in their utmost to bring it back to its original glory. One of the reasons for the rule that damaging property is illegal is because if someone say, knocked down a column to make way for a kennel, they would be destroying that original column. In many Eypharian eyes, that is not only incredibly disrespectful but also incredibly stupid. How can you learn about the past (and ultimately get back to previous glory) if you knock it down? So people with that kind of property would live in it, but no self-respecting Eypharian would let it look so forlorn for long. They would bring it back to life- exactly as it used to be. Or at least, as exactly as they can.
Have all the buildings been looted long ago? Are they missing gold and mosaic finery from thieves? Or do some maintain pieces of ancient artwork and wealth? If so, how did the citizens preserve these?
-In the dark days, when they were in the tunnels, most of Eypharian society kind of... crumbled. Theft, murder, violence, crime- these all flourished. Of course, some stole from the world above to bring down to the tunnels. A lot would have been corroded or lost or broken in the Valterrian, but anything that does remain is always treasured. If a house features a mosaic floor, say, then they would do everything in their power to maintain it, and also brag about it till the cows came home.
If someone wanted a new house, would they build a new one from sandstone in the surrounding area, or would they start by uncovering ancient buildings from the sand? Or does it depend? Who's allowed to do what?
-All new buildings are built from the remains of old ones. So if people need a new house, they have to say so to the authorities. However, there is always at least one excavation going on at any time, and along with this comes restoration and eventually new houses, shops, etc.
Also, what happened to the other three great Eypharian cities? Have there ever been missions to uncover those ruins? (potential large plot/quest)
-Ah. That is a secret.

.
.

[Sayana]

So apparently I remembered the new name of this desert city as "Kaipur" instead of "Kaiphen". It might have been a month since I checked your new name. Take it as you will. Maybe it's an abomination compared to your idea for the name, maybe it's easier to remember or more reminiscent of desert culture. Or maybe it's something clearly stolen that my mind was grasping for. Anyways, it was just meant to be a small remark.

Instead, my main focus for this post is to bring up some goals that I think are important when developing this city:
1) To make Kaiphen significantly different from Egypt (since I'm pretty sure this was one of the main reasons for the re-write)
2) To make Kaiphen unique from other Mizahar cities
3) To make Kaiphen a fun place to roleplay in

I just wanted to bring these to light especially when answering some of the overarching questions regarding the city.


Got to head out for some grocery shopping, but I plan to take a closer look at the answers (that was awesome seeing such detailed explanations!), and start challenging some in regards to these three goals.

Just one thing, if you made a decision based off your gut feeling and it's a strong gut feeling - just go with it because there's a probably good reason for it. I don't want to shake your confidence but I want to help provide feedback and the opportunity for new ideas.

Credit: Shimoje

[Sayana]

Follow-up questions/comments to the first set of answers:


History
I love the idea of Dhani tunnels for hiding in. It also gives some contrast and variation of the desert rather than just being sand, because you’d need some sort of rock formations to have tunnels since sand would probably collapse in on itself.

Regarding the Golden Watchtower, currently the image is very Egyptian looking with a sandstone obelisk. So it might be worth investigating a different look.


Economy
Just a small note, if you’re too poor to have a slave collect water, you’d probably collect it yourself rather than wait (and hope) for it to rain.

I like the idea of corn for a different sort of crop. I’m not sure how much water it needs but I think it can prosper in drier climates.

I also like the idea of it being on a river – for realism’s sake. And I agree that the seasonal flooding of Egypt should be avoided, otherwise it would start getting too similar. Maybe there are tight laws on water consumption because of the very real fact that the river would get very low (or dry up) if too much water was used.

Regarding paper – how big of a glade of woodland is this? And what kind of trees? Palm trees? Also, I believe a lot of medieval paper was made from the crushed fibers of linen and cloth. Take an old rag (that was once an article of clothing), crush it in water so the fibers are all separated out, let it sit and dry, then get a sheet of paper-like material. It was only later that wood was used for paper. And then of course, Egyptians had papyrus (reed-like plant) to use as a writing medium. All in all, I would be really hesitant to use a precious wood supply for something like paper, when other means could be used to produce paper. I’d probably save the wood for boat building or even for roof tops (since stone is heavy and hard to construct roofs).

Regarding boats – don’t discount Zeltiva as a potential place to purchase boats from. It’s a little far, but they have both trees and ship builders. Certainly they might charge an arm and a leg for a good boat (since they are rather prized possessions) but there would probably be an abundance of boats from them.

I like your blurb on slaves. Another thing they might be helpful with is on construction projects / uncovering projects. There might be some slaves owned by the state that strictly help with public projects since it would be a lot of manual work to uncover and rebuild old architecture.


Culture
I like the entrepreneurial vision of the city and the competitiveness that goes along with it.

Regarding this quote, I actually have a lot to say: “After all, if you're a slave and you're good at what you do, why would your owner want to let you be free?”

Slavery and productivity don’t always go hand in hand. In fact, usually paid workers are much more productive. Firstly, there is much less incentive for a slave to work hard because essentially they are being forced to work and it is not of their choosing. There might be punishments for not working hard but there are much fewer real incentives for being productive and there is less ownership and responsibility for the work that they do. Additionally, there is always the threat of a slave escaping, so additional people would need to be hired to keep slaves from running away and also make sure they do their work.

Now, what I’m getting at is if a slave had a difficult but potentially achievable goal to gain their freedom through hard work, they might choose to aim for that goal. This would promote high productivity and would lessen the likelihood of them trying to escape because the slave would be focused on obtaining freedom through a ‘legal’ means.

An ambitious slave could instead focus their efforts on escaping ‘illegally’, however they might acknowledge the high risks and prefer to do it the ‘legal’ means. If the bar is set high enough to achieve this freedom, then the slave owners would still gain huge productivity for those many years. And, if a good relationship results by the time the slave is set free, then it is possible that the freed-slave might come back and work for pay under the same owner. This pay might be very minimal (due to race and their ‘freed-slave’ status), and therefore beneficial to the eypharian, but the low pay and freedom would mean the worker would likely be more productive overall.

Some of this is theoretical / logical reasoning and I haven’t necessarily researched this but it’s my long explanation to why an owner might want to set a near-impossible goal that would result in freedom for the slave.

EDIT: On second thought, it could result in some very interesting relations and conflict if only recently some slave owners have given the option of freedom after obtaining a high goal. This would allow for both perspectives and a really interesting dynamic regarding slaves and how they should be managed. And remember that Eypharian culture is built on ambition, competitiveness and success.


Magic/Religion
I really like your comment about religion being a big thing when in the tunnels (since everyone is scared and whatnot). It would be interesting to see how the ‘need for religion’ clashes with the fact that the gods essentially caused all the turmoil above. But maybe it’s not known knowledge of the cause for the Valterrian. Or maybe it is found out or reasoned much much later, and there’s a big switch-over from those of faith to those choosing not to worship gods.


Architecture
Just to follow up on this question, what percentage of buildings have now been recovered and rebuilt, compared to the percentage of buildings still in ruins / buried in the sand? Like have they restored half of the buildings now?

I really like the intense passion for preserving the buildings. You might want to consider how people handle the situation of realizing that a building used to have an impressive roof or several stories of stone structure, yet they do not have the technological means to recreate this. They might have deduced this through artwork or just by the general shape. I think this inability to actually recreate certain structures could be an interesting point of tension because they simply haven’t regained their past fully glory. Like said above somewhere, buildings with stone roofs are hard… stone is really heavy. So you really need to understand how to build buildings. Since it doesn’t rain much, temperatures are generally warm, and it’s mostly the sun/sand you’d want to protect yourself from, maybe fabric tent-like roofs would be more common as an alternative.

Credit: Shimoje

[Kaleidoscope]

.
.

Here's round two of answers. Those are three very important points Sayana, and honestly the last thing I want is to accidentally slip into ancient Egyptian. It's quite a big pitfall considering just how much I love ancient Egypt, but I'll do my best.

A side-note about the city name: Kaipur is a nice name, but a quick google brings up Jaipur, which is a rather pretty, famous city in India. I'm not adverse to name suggestions, but I've grown pretty comfortable with Kaiphen, myself. Obviously, if people absolutely hate it, please please let me know!

___

Also, I will read your reply as soon as I can. Methinks we're gearing up for a discussion about slavery.

Social Structure
Who are the leaders?
-Kaiphen has a long history of pressorahs/pressors before the Valterrian. These were descended through bloodlines. However, the Valterrian shook everything up, including rulership. Throughout time, there have been a group of respected individuals who have formed a kind of council that advise the ruler. During the Valterrian, this council took over completely, but when the Eypharians emerged once more, a new system of rulership was established. This means that now, there is a body of people (well-respected merchants, patrons of the arts, Architects (more to come about them) etc.) who make up the council. This council then chooses a ruling family, with one particular member of that family to act as queen/king/Sayana's fabulous name that I've temporarily forgotten. The ruling family holds power for the lifetime of that king/queen, but as soon as they die/step down, the council picks a new ruling family. Those families are usually the most successful in the city, which is why there is such an emphasis placed on being the best of the best, both IC and OOC. Being the best of the best could lead you to great glories!
What groups/organizations have a large amount of power?
-There are 3 rough bodies that have the most power and authority in the city. The first is the council, who are obviously really quite wealthy, influential, and VIPs. The second is the ruling family, because they are tasked with organising the council and making sure the city runs as it should. The third (so far) is the Architects. These are the people that uncover the city's lost past and return it to glory- they are the people who do the archaeology. They are important because their job probably takes the most amount of money and time and they are very influential, having people in the council etc. There are probably other groups with a lot of power, but again I haven't hashed out all of the government yet.
Who makes the laws and dolls out the laws?
-A combination of the ruler and the council. The people who enforce the laws are the Kiats.
Is political power granted by lineage or by ambition/social character? Or is some of it one kind, and some the other kind?
-As all Eypharians are considered to be descended from divine blood, every Eypharian has a chance at being the ruler, if they work hard enough. It isn't a question, on paper, of who has the most divine blood, although that usually does play a part. Lineage is obviously tracked throughout the years, and so if you have mixed blood you would be less appealing as a ruler. But overall, it is down to your own personal ambition.
Are there different classes? Who makes up what class and can they change classes? Can slaves ever change into one of the non-slave classes?
-Yes, there are different classes, based on wealth and race. It is supposedly easy to change class if you work hard, however due to prejudice it can be difficult for people to actually do this. So, the rich, famous, and successful make up the higher classes. The average Eypharian working a basic job and supporting a family lies in the middle class, and foreigners and those who are poor, injured so as to make them unfit for work, and those who are not considered clever enough for a good job are placed in the lowest class. Slaves, unless under very exceptional circumstances, cannot change class.
Are there any people so poor that they live on the streets?
-Undoubtedly. Eypharians take care of their streets though, and so beggars and the poor are usually shunned, threatened or physically dragged away. There is a band of poor people however, that live on little mud-type huts raised just above the surface of the river like little islands. These are favoured by the poor, because they can be built however they like, and are not subject to strict laws that you'd get in the city proper.
How do people show their status? Jewelry, homes, slaves, profession, clothes, social connections, mannerisms, level of education, facial make-up, spouse, political influence?
-Hah! All of the above.


Military/Law Enforcement
Who is part of the military?
-There is no overall military. What is this madness?!, you might be thinking. Well, don't worry. What there is instead is are household guards. You might think that these would only protect families, but they also serve as protection for the city. Should Kaiphen desire it, all of the household guards can be called upon and amass as one military.
Who/what does the military fight against? Who/what does it primarily protect? If there wasn’t a military force, would other desert dwellers use the city’s water supply?
-The royal household guard are responsible for protecting the city as a whole, and would normally fight off wild animals that might threaten the outskirts. Household guards act as protection against criminals, and those that would cause harm to their family. Sometimes, the kiats would call upon the household guards to put down a riot in troubled times, or if they were needed for a particular raid or something similar. If there wasn't a military force, other desert dwellers would not be a problem, simply because it is extremely difficult for other desert dwellers to survive without an established city to support them. Also, the water source is a river, so in actuality if anyone tried to 'take' it, the royal household guard might ride upriver and disrupt whatever camp was there.
What are their typical weapons / tactics? Do they use horses? Chariots? Do they wear armor? Are their weapons iron and steel based or wooden based or bronze based? Is archery common or is there not enough wood for arrows? Do they ever use elephants? Are there elephants?
-My favourite question so far, because it features elephants. Typical weapons: allsorts. Diversity makes you stronger. One typical feature would be duel-wielding though, due to the multi-armed nature of the Eypharian race. Tactics: Unsure... Horses: Yes, they do have horses- the Eyktolian desertbred in particular. Armour: Yes, but again styles vary and go through phases. It is usually light armour, mostly leather with metal being utilised at higher skill level and prestige. Weapons: Whatever they can get their hands on. Archery: Is perhaps not as common as in other places, but still available. There is a little woodland nearish to the city where they get the majority of their wood, and it is managed so that a small percentage of it is given over to weapons yearly. Elephants: I haven't developed flora/fauna yet, but my gut instinct is to say no. Or at least, if there were any elephants they'd be pretty rare.
Are there any military tactics that have mimicked from pre-valterrian records but fail to meet the true potential? Like a single battle elephant that is mostly for show, but does very little, yet would intimidate any opposition of Ahnatep due to the way things are currently.
-Hmm, not so much. I haven't thought of tactics, so that's a good one to consider.
Who are the law enforcers?
-The kiats are the law enforcers. They're already written up. Not sure why I picked that as the first one to write up, but there you have it.
How can you tell that they are the law enforcers?
-You mean like uniforms or something? I... actually hadn't given that thought. It would be because you would go to the kiater and ask for help with a crime, and so you would see who they are then. I guess.
Is crime on the streets a problem? Or are fraud, scandal and white collar crimes more common? Are there established lawyers? Or is crime resolved in a simpler way? Or is non-violent crime resolved with various negotiations and deals between families?
-Crime on the street can be a problem, especially with theft from vendors. However, violence can be an issue too. Another aspect of Eypharian culture which I am going to write up is an aspect that I haven't given a name to yet, but is something like a faction that wants to create it's own future. So, instead of the general norm of reconstructing buildings to be exactly how it was, these renegades want to create their own, newer culture, new ideas... and in doing so wish to destroy the old. That's considered a crime, and so those people are a problem. The kiats are policemen and lawyers all in one, so crime is solved all in one. Non-violent crime can indeed be solved between families, if they do not want to bring it to the attention of the kiats. Even violent crime can sometimes be dealt with in this way, depending on who was involved.


Slaves
What race(s) are the most common for slavery?
-Probably human, or mixed race, as this is the most plentiful.
What type of work is commonly done?
-Manual labour, carrying water, etc. A range, which I mentioned in the previous post somewhere.
Would a poor family still have a slave? How many slaves would middle class have? What about upper class?
-Most families would have a slave, as having slaves is a symbol that you can afford to get someone else to do the work. They are, so to speak, a luxury item, and as most people want to do well in the world, the purchase of a slave would be an achievement. A poor family might not have a slave, but if they did it would likely only have one slave. A middle class family might have two-three, and from then on the upper classes would accrue more and more, depending on their status and level of wealth.
What keeps the slaves from rising up or revolting against their masters?
-Ah, now this is a difficult issue that I'm not sure how to resolve. Indeed, I am flirting with the idea of having a somewhat iffy way of keeping slaves from revolting, to induce a cool plot down the line. However, it's a risky strategy. I'll get back to you on this one.
Is magic ever used to keep slaves in their place? (hypnotism, reimancy, projection)
-Perhaps... see above.
Have Grand Oaths ever be used on high up slaves?
-Perhaps... see above.
Where do the slaves come from? Or are there enough of them to have their own children? Why would a slave ever want to raise their children in slavery? Or are they the result of rape?
-Obviously they can't just come from thin air. There is a tradition in Mizahar of some places having and owning slaves, most notably Kenash. Where do these people come from? Kenash seems to have a way to capture foreigners and make them slaves if they don't become an established part of Kenash. Kaiphen... well, there could be a similar strategy. However, it is quite disruptive to just take people off the streets, even if they are foreigners. It would look quite unsightly to have all these little disputes happening in pockets across the city. So instead, I had planned to have a slaving headquarters, where a group of people go out and try to capture people in the wilderness to take back as slaves. But again, there aren't going to be huge numbers of people wandering around without combat skills in the wilds of Mizahar. So instead, I think I need to think up some reason how slaves might want to have children, even if they were to become slaves. Hmm...


History (again)
What were some of the defining pre-valterrian attributes of Eypharian life that current day Eypharians are trying to mimic?
They want to mimic pretty much everything. They want to be masters of Mizahar, they want to be properly powerful again. They want to have a topnotch culture, they want to revive old dances, old songs, old fashion. They want to bring back their excellent writers, artists... they want the city to look as it once did, they want to have prowess in trading. Etc etc...
Which of those aspects did they get completely wrong and are mimicking something that didn’t exist or they are going about it in the wrong way?
-Again, good question! I'm going to list down all the questions separately which I can't answer properly yet. This is one of them.
Which of those aspects are solely for the purpose of propaganda to solidify the standing of the current leader?
-This is another one.
What information did they manage to save from the Valterrian? What has been corrupted? (through time or intention)
-Probably too much to list. They have retained a fair deal, but a lot lot lot of it is corrupted. So, they might have found a book detailing a food preservation, but they can only replicate the first stage. Or, they use the wrong ingredients in the right way or something. They are in constant development.
Do all Eypharians have a high regard for the past grandeur of the city? What might make some of them skeptical?
-A lot of Eypharians have a *very* high regard for the past. A growing number of people, still small amounts though, are beginning to grow tired of always trying to replicate the past, and wish to make their own future.
Does the city have an ‘old’ section and a ‘new’ section? How is that conveyed by people, shops, and status?
-The middle of the city is the oldest part, as it was rebuilt first. As you get further and further to the outskirts, it gets newer and newer. So for instance, some of the very wealthy might prefer the inner city because the houses are most established, there is a definite sense of community there, and it is where the palace/government/everything like that is. Some other rich people might prefer the outskirts, because the houses are more cutting edge, they are more accurate, they can have some kind of influence over which bits get built first (eg. they are rich and want a bathhouse rebuilt before houses, they can bribe the Architects to rebuild the bathhouse first).
What kind of technology can the see examples of (eg depicted in old artwork) but cannot replicate?
-Again, this is another one I can't answer right now!

.
.

[Sayana]

Sweet! More answers I'll get back to you soon with a more thorough review of my thoughts, but I did have another point about slaves/slavery.

I believe in history that one of the most common sources of slaves was from the results of a war/battle waged between two groups of people. If group A vanquished group B, then the leaders of group A were faced with the decision of what to do with the surviving people of group B. It was rare to completely exterminate the vanquished group. Sometimes all the able-bodied men were killed, and the women and children were marginalized so that assimilation could occur. Sometimes everyone was killed, which was often considered very barbaric. And sometimes people were taken as prisoners of war, which sometimes resulted in selling them off as slaves (either to work for group A or for an entirely different group).

So, if there are nomadic bands that bicker and squabble and engage in physical conflicts with each other, there may be prisoners of war on either side who would be more profitable to sell off as a slave, than to try to restrain with the risk of them escaping and returning to the enemy's side.

For Mizahar, I'm not sure how much fighting like that occurs. In far off places like Taloba vs Zinrah, there is conflict. Also potentially the gangs of Sunberth. But maybe there are other sources for slaves for Kaiphen. (Also thanks on the note about Jaipur - I'm sure that's where my brain was going and it's better to stay away from a similar name). I've noticed that lots of cities dislike the poor and/or homeless on the streets. Maybe Kaiphen brings slavers to cities to 'relieve them of this problem'. It could be win-win for both cities and the slavers might have to pay for the transportation but would know there was good demand in Kaiphen and that they could train the slaves into shape.

Credit: Shimoje

[Rhodri]

The two of you write a lot. I skimmed a good portion of your last few exchanges simply because I'm in more a writing mood than one for reading. That being said there were a few things that caught my eye and some interesting tidbits I wanted to share that might be useful (or not).

First- Kaleidoscope, thank you for taking the time to be awesome and redesign Rhodri's homeland!

Now, on to the pertinent information.

Slavery and productivity don’t always go hand in hand. In fact, usually paid workers are much more productive. Firstly, there is much less incentive for a slave to work hard because essentially they are being forced to work and it is not of their choosing. There might be punishments for not working hard but there are much fewer real incentives for being productive and there is less ownership and responsibility for the work that they do. Additionally, there is always the threat of a slave escaping, so additional people would need to be hired to keep slaves from running away and also make sure they do their work.

While the use of fear and pain were employed in many situations to motivate slaves, there have been numerous times in history where slave populations rose and grew through volunteers. The main example is that of the Roman empire in the early AD years. When it stretched from Gaul to Babylon, there were some sixty million slaves and historians estimate that almost half of them became slaves of their own will. The reason was simple. It was a way to feed themselves and their families. So while it was called slavery, it was almost an indentured servitude. Given the racial supremacy that Eypharians have, maybe there's an aspect of the city that doesn't allow other races to find gainful employment so they have to become slaves in order to survive. This could all be done through contracts which might specify a term or a goal as Sayana stated which could also include a grand oath to prevent uprisings.

The next thing I'd like to address is food. Corn could be good but it's also something that would require a lot of work and would attract a lot of attention from wildlife, insects and bandits. The desert has many viable plants that produce fruit which could be utilized without actual cultivation of land. Cacti, I think, would be an awesome thing to delve into for the Eypharians. One of the main reasons why is because of the semblance to the race. Also, it wouldn't take much to generate a few species that grow fruit. Pollination would be relatively simple as well. The Joshua tree grows panicles (a large clump of flowerbuds) every year which the seeds and buds can be used for food. The Yucca moth is solely responsible for making sure the species is sustained. The river basin could definitely support a great deal of this type of hearty plant. I also heard something about making cactus wine so there could be potential for export.

Finally, I really like how you have created a base for the military. It's somewhat ingenious in that it leaves the majority of the upkeep to the individual houses. The way that the guards can be called upon for different situations certainly lends itself to a massive amount of scheming, plotting and politics which sound like they'll be deeply entwined in the new city. Instead of archers, which I agree with your assessment of resources, I believe slings would be a very popular weapon. It's the desert -rocks will be everywhere.

In terms of tactics, they will vary greatly in terms of what you decide will be the features (elephants, horses, camels, etc (I would love to help you with this when the time comes)). Almost every desert culture on the East side of the world employed some kind of chariot warfare. It wasn't about efficiency as much as it was a display of power. Perhaps every house has a champion and one chariot that is a symbol of their power. You could even incorporate games down the line once PCs started reaching the rank of house champion. I think diversity is very wise on your part. Eypharians are arrogant and would likely think each house had their own 'best' weapon. One might use spears and small bucklers while another might use whips and daggers. All of these ideas stem from your brilliance to separate things by House. Different tactics, strengths, weapons and attitudes could all be used to define the various groups.

I kind of rambled a bit but I hope my limited focus helps in some small way.